2021 F1 Discussions

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But there was another very possible scenario under which their strategy would've been wrong.

What Mercedes did not know was how long it would take to clear the track and green flag the race. If the track was cleared a little sooner, their tire strategy would have handicapped them and the race outcome theoretically would've been the same.

It can also be debated whether the track was safe enough to allow the all the lapped cars through sooner; Horner thought it was and kept asking Masi to let them by. Masi didn't agree. Then it seemed like Masi almost realized he should've let them go through sooner and did what he did, hence all the controversy.

Welcome back Albert! 😀
Thank you Michael! 😀 👍

Yes, Mercedes had to take the decision to stop or not to stop Lewis when the SC was deployed because of Latifi. Max would do just the opposite.

And Mercedes, based on the experience and the Safety Car regulations, decided not to stop Hamilton to get new tyres, as there was a great chance of finishing the race behind the Safety Car -that would have been the case if Masi had respected Art. 48.12-. If Lewis stopped, Max would not stop and would take the lead... So, if the race were finished behind the Safety Car, Mercedes would have given the victory and the WDC Title to Verstappen for stopping Hamilton when he was in the lead. Mercedes' decision was the right one, the only one, given the circumstances.

Alternatively, there could have been a final lap of the race but with several drivers lapped between Hamilton and Verstappen, so the decision not to stop Hamilton was still the right one. Evidently, in for a penny, in for a pound, Max was always going to do the opposite to Hamilton, so he did stop to get new soft tyres, as he was not going to be overtaken by the third driver, who was so far behind... That said, from having 3 lapped cars between Hamilton and himself, he now had 5. Those 5 lapped cars would also have allowed Hamilton to keep the lead until the finish line, in case the race was restarted with one lap to go.


The track was still not clear, so the laps behind the Safety Car went on and on during the Williams' rescue and they were already on lap 57 of a race scheduled for 58 laps. At that point, the regulations (Art. 48.12) gave Masi only two options:

A) Not to let lapped drivers to unlap themselves, withdraw the Safety Car at the end of lap 57 and restart the race with 1 lap to go (with 5 lapped cars between Hamilton and Verstappen). Hamilton was almost certain to win.

B) Let all the lapped drivers to unlap themselves. In that case, the Safety Car had to pit at the end of the FOLLOWING lap, which was already the chequered flag. Hamilton won 100%.

First, the FIA Race Director sent the message that the lapped drivers would not unlap themselves (in order to restart the race with one lap to go, i.e. option A), but Christian Horner called Michael Masi on the radio asking him to withdraw the lapped drivers and to have a race lap. Masi said “Give me a second”… Surprisingly, shortly after, Masi decided to let the drivers unlap themselves, but only the 5 drivers between Hamilton and Verstappen. The two drivers between Verstappen (2nd) and Sainz (3rd) were not allowed to unlap themselves, so Max didn't even have to worry that Sainz was going to attack him on the restart.

This is another unfair and illegal decision by Masi: if some drivers could unlap themselves, all drivers should be allowed to do so, not just a few selected. Having allowed the unlapping of cars, and to the disbelief of Toto Wolff and Hamilton, the Race Direction announces that the Safety Car will pit at the end of lap 57, when Art. 48.12 specifies that it should withdraw at the end of the FOLLOWING lap, which was already the chequered flag. This breach of the rules by the FIA Race Director left Max Verstappen on new soft tyres trailing a Hamilton at his mercy on hard tyres for over 40 laps...

It was a totally uneven and irregular last lap, which should never have happened. From the moment they allowed the drivers to unlap themselves, the race should have legally ended in a procession behind the Safety Car, with Lewis first and Max second. The tyre difference between the two was gigantic, making it impossible for Hamilton –a sitting duck- to defend against Verstappen. Max crossed the line first after that lap invented by the FIA Race Director.

Under the rules, Mercedes made the correct strategy decision, but Masi took a decision which isn’t allowed. What Masi did is an indecent botch.


Yes, if the Williams had been rescued and the track cleared faster than normal, that last lap would have been legal and Mercedes' decision would have been wrong… but that's not what happened. Mercedes was right, and Hamilton is the legit 2021 Champion under the rules.
Edited:
 
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Thank you Michael! 😀 👍

Yes, Mercedes had to take the decision to stop or not to stop Lewis when the SC was deployed because of Latifi. Max would do just the opposite.

And Mercedes, based on the experience and the Safety Car regulations, decided not to stop Hamilton to get new tyres, as there was a great chance of finishing the race behind the Safety Car -that would have been the case if Masi had respected Art. 48.12-. If Lewis stopped, Max would not stop and would take the lead... So, if the race were finished behind the Safety Car, Mercedes would have given the victory and the WDC Title to Verstappen for stopping Hamilton when he was in the lead. Mercedes' decision was the right one, the only one, given the circumstances.

Alternatively, there could have been a final lap of the race but with several drivers lapped between Hamilton and Verstappen, so the decision not to stop Hamilton was still the right one. Evidently, in for a penny, in for a pound, Max was always going to do the opposite to Hamilton, so he did stop to get new soft tyres, as he was not going to be overtaken by the third driver, who was so far behind... That said, from having 3 lapped cars between Hamilton and himself, he now had 5. Those 5 lapped cars would also have allowed Hamilton to keep the lead until the finish line, in case the race was restarted with one lap to go.


The track was still not clear, so the laps behind the Safety Car went on and on during the Williams' rescue and they were already on lap 57 of a race scheduled for 58 laps. At that point, the regulations (Art. 48.12) gave Masi only two options:

A) Not to let lapped drivers to unlap themselves, withdraw the Safety Car at the end of lap 57 and restart the race with 1 lap to go (with 5 lapped cars between Hamilton and Verstappen). Hamilton was almost certain to win.

B) Let all the lapped drivers to unlap themselves. In that case, the Safety Car had to pit at the end of the FOLLOWING lap, which was already the chequered flag. Hamilton won 100%.

First, the FIA Race Director sent the message that the lapped drivers would not unlap themselves (in order to restart the race with one lap to go, i.e. option A), but Christian Horner called Michael Masi on the radio asking him to withdraw the lapped drivers and to have a race lap. Masi said “Give me a second”… Surprisingly, shortly after, Masi decided to let the drivers unlap themselves, but only the 5 drivers between Hamilton and Verstappen. The two drivers between Verstappen (2nd) and Sainz (3rd) were not allowed to unlap themselves, so Max didn't even have to worry that Sainz was going to attack him on the restart.

This is another unfair and illegal decision by Masi: if some drivers could unlap themselves, all drivers should be allowed to do so, not just a few selected. Having allowed the unlapping of cars, and to the disbelief of Toto Wolff and Hamilton, the Race Direction announces that the Safety Car will pit at the end of lap 57, when Art. 48.12 specifies that it should withdraw at the end of the FOLLOWING lap, which was already the chequered flag. This breach of the rules by the FIA Race Director left Max Verstappen on new soft tyres trailing a Hamilton at his mercy on hard tyres for over 40 laps...

It was a totally uneven and irregular last lap, which should never have happened. From the moment they allowed the drivers to unlap themselves, the race should have legally ended in a procession behind the Safety Car, with Lewis first and Max second. The tyre difference between the two was gigantic, making it impossible for Hamilton –a sitting duck- to defend against Verstappen. Max crossed the line first after that lap invented by the FIA Race Director.

Under the rules, Mercedes made the correct strategy decision, but Masi took a decision which isn’t allowed. What Masi did is an indecent botch.


Yes, if the Williams had been rescued and the track cleared faster than normal, that last lap would have been legal and Mercedes' decision would have been wrong… but that's not what happened. Mercedes was right, and Hamilton is the legit 2021 Champion under the rules.
100% agree with all of this and maintain it was a completely travesty.
 
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It’s about the VSC not the late SC. Had Lewis pitted under the VSC he most probably would have won the race, even with the SC shenanigans and all roles would have been reversed. Everybody’s moved on in the meantime. There’s a 2022 thread now.
 
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It’s all ‘ifs, buts and maybes’ now, look forward to 2022 afresh with hopefully close racing- or I’ll be on the fast forward button again- presently watching a rerun of Bathurst 1000 from the other week, proper stuff.
 
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It’s about the VSC not the late SC. Had Lewis pitted under the VSC he most probably would have won the race, even with the SC shenanigans and all roles would have been reversed. Everybody’s moved on in the meantime. There’s a 2022 thread now.
We do not know what would have happened if Mercedes had stopped Lewis under the VSC, but in any case the decision they made -in addition to being legal- worked for them, because 5 laps from the end Lewis had a stable advantage of 11-12 seconds in his pocket. It was just Masi's illegal decision to break the Safety Car regulations that defeated Mercedes, not the strategy with the stops, because if the regulations had been followed Lewis won the race and the Championship.

Maybe some fans of Max and Red Bull want everything to move on, and forget how an illegal decision by the FIA Race Director made him win a Title that he already had lost... but one of the biggest scandals in the history of Formula 1 and the Sport in general cannot be concealed or forgotten. That was not a bad arbitration decision, it was a decision against the rules of the sport, and it is something without precedent.
 
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Albert is back from hiatus, but Lewis Hamilton continues to whine and whimper, not knowing if he's coming back.

Albert is very much welcome back. Lewis can retire from racing and become a world leader and human activist in 2022.
 
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None of these arguments are new. It’s all been discussed at length on various platforms over the past two weeks. Hamilton fans believe he deserved the title and Verstappen fans believe he does. That wouldn’t have been different if Lewis would have crossed the line first.
Merc’s strategy didn’t work for them obviously. Had Latifi’s car been towed a lap earlier, Max would still have won without all this controversy. In both situations however Lewis most probably would have won if he had pitted under VSC. We can’t know for sure, again a lot of ifs but his chances would have greatly improved. It’s a stretch to claim Merc’s strategy was correct.
I don’t believe this is a scandal. That would entail a serious intent. Masi had to make split second decisions while both Horner and Wolff were sitting on his shoulders. If you want better decisions then change the rules and stop influencing the race director during the race or at least during an incident.
 
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Say the crash happened a l couple of laps earlier and there would have been time for things to play out properly, would Merc have pitted Lewis and given up the lead or not? Given what was said on the radio to Lewis, I don't think so. In which case what happened would still have happened. It's interesting that not everyone in F1 sided with Merc though, some people defended Masi. For me I can't see why he didn't let the other two lapped cars pass as well, that seems to be his biggest faux pas.
 
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Say the crash happened a l couple of laps earlier and there would have been time for things to play out properly, would Merc have pitted Lewis and given up the lead or not? Given what was said on the radio to Lewis, I don't think so. In which case what happened would still have happened. It's interesting that not everyone in F1 sided with Merc though, some people defended Masi. For me I can't see why he didn't let the other two lapped cars pass as well, that seems to be his biggest faux pas.
Or if Masi really wanted the race to not end under the safety car (as he said), he should've focused more on letting them all pass a little sooner. I suspect he could've orchestrated better, but was distracted by Toto & Christian yelling in his ear.

Masi was screwed no matter what decision he made during those final laps. Whatever the outcome, the other side would've been upset and claimed some form of injustice one way or another.

There are so many different ways to debate the outcome, from the race strategy to the interpretation of the rules, and the various events that occurred over the season. It is endless and pointless at this stage, the championship is decided, like it or not.

I'm happy for TAG Heuer more than anything else. 😀
 
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I don't understand why Horner 'admitted' to shouting at Masi, listen to the radio, he didn't shout at him at all, he was very calm.
 
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Say the crash happened a l couple of laps earlier and there would have been time for things to play out properly, would Merc have pitted Lewis and given up the lead or not? Given what was said on the radio to Lewis, I don't think so. In which case what happened would still have happened. It's interesting that not everyone in F1 sided with Merc though, some people defended Masi. For me I can't see why he didn't let the other two lapped cars pass as well, that seems to be his biggest faux pas.
Exactly. The same complaints are becoming a little
Boring. Let’s be clear, there’s nothing illegal about it when a clause under the rules gives a race director the Carte Blanche to veto them. Merc didn’t not appeal for the sake of it - they couldn’t possibly win.

the rules need to be changed. Most specifically to take any vagueness away and the power of the Rd. That will doubtless happen but equally I am glad the best driver throughout the year won and am happy with that.

hamilton was a complete gentleman and had gone up miles in my estimation since. I wanted max to win it not necessarily like that. I hope the pair of them duke it out next year too.
 
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These fashionable pillows are sold out everywhere, let me know if anyone finds them in stock

 
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These fashionable pillows are sold out everywhere, let me know if anyone finds them in stock

I’ve always heard Toto say “Mikey” than “Michael” Sounds like they have pet names for each other 😁😜