The LVMH Nepotism era?

dtf
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Aquagraph Aquagraph
Last time I looked they were in the boutiques, except now they have an inferior 3,6,9 layout and a noisy rotor. And I don't agree that they don't age well. At all. I love mine just as much now as I did in 2016 and I think it still looks absolutely killer.

Some people prefer the symmetry of the 3,6,9 layout, and the distinction of that layout from the calibre 16, there is no basis to say it’s inferior.

I do think they H01 has aged well, I still look at them, particularly the original version, and think they look fresh. I saw one in an AD in Brussels last week, so they are still out there.
 
paysdoufs
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Isn't it a bit ridiculous to talk about the legendary 'Calibre11' movement, when it's actually a shitty off the shelf Selitta?
It certainly is. Though, technically, only the lower half of the Cal. 11 is a shitty off-the-shelf Sellita 😁

Aaaaand they turned the base movement 180 degrees versus the chrono module #mindblown

But in all honesty: I have less and less issues with off-the-shelf. And so does my watchmaker 😉
 
Aquagraph
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dtf dtf
Some people prefer the symmetry of the 3,6,9 layout, and the distinction of that layout from the calibre 16, there is no basis to say it’s inferior.

Mmmm, well... you could apply that kind of logic to half the things people say on this forum. 🙄
 
Yago
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By definition a 'modern' looking watch doesn't stay 'modern' indefinitely. Something else needs to come along to take it's place. Just as sooner or later something else will take over from Richard Mille. The strength of designing 'old' looking watches is that they look dated from the start so they don't get old looking...

I imagine TAG look at it that a watch has a 5-7 year lifespan at best, I don't think modern watches are things that someone saves up for over 20 years to buy, the vast bulk of sales will dry up after 5-7 years and the next thing comes along.

There's a difference between modern and contemporary.
A '30s Mondriaan is still modern art.
The only relevant contemporary watches are smart watches.

A speedy, Santos, Nautilus, Daytona,... are all modern watches that people still get in line for. They don't look dated from the start. They are curated across decades with relatively small upgrades and have a following that dwarf any Carrera. They sell more and more, no drying up whatsoever. A main reason why so few people fork out 6k for a Carrera is because no one really knows what it stands for. The name is spread from simple C5 three handers to over the top 45mm tourbillons in carbon cases. The glassbox is not part of the regular range and 99,9% of dudes looking for a chrono don't even know it exists. They just see BB chronos and speedies everywhere, from instagram to shop windows.

I agree TAG seem to look at a 5-7 year lifespan. Throwing up more than 50 new watches each year really isn't the solution. It just dilutes the brand and its icons further.

The assumption that these are the views of watch people and TAG knows the market best is true and not true. The fact that Omega outsell TAG threefold with their line of classic, old looking, outdated watches tells you something. On the other hand TAG seem to focus more and more on watch noobs who know the logo from an F1 car or a celebrity wrist and are ready to spend max. 2k on a quartz chrono with flashy colours. If that works, good for them, but I'm out.
 
Aquagraph
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Yago Yago
The only relevant contemporary watches are smart watches.

What a depressing statement. Richard Mille are completely irrelevant then?
 
Yago
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What a depressing statement. Richard Mille are completely irrelevant then?
It’s all ‘irrelevant’ as everyone has time on their phone and by extension on their smart watches. In the ‘90s we still needed a classic watch. My point is that smart watches are a thing of this age.
 
Aquagraph
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Yago Yago
It’s all ‘irrelevant’ as everyone has time on their phone and by extension on their smart watches. In the ‘90s we still needed a classic watch. My point is that smart watches are a thing of this age.

Oh okay, I thought you were saying 'modern' watches are irrelevant but nice old watches aren't. But still I don't agree. Depends on how you apply 'relevant' 'I suppose. You could also say painting is irrelevant since the invention of the camera but there's plenty of good painting in the last however many years... but yes, nobody 'needs' a wristwatch, it's a choice.
 
paysdoufs
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Yago Yago
(…) The fact that Omega outsell TAG threefold with their line of classic, old looking, outdated watches tells you something. On the other hand TAG seem to focus more and more on watch noobs who know the logo from an F1 car or a celebrity wrist and are ready to spend max. 2k on a quartz chrono with flashy colours. If that works, good for them, but I'm out.
I’m with @Yago on that one —> See what I just posted in the “New ambassador” thread…

TH seem to kind of still try to achieve a rather giant split in terms of marketing, but my impression is that they’re realizing that this doesn’t work too well. Hence the increasing focus on “refreshing”/“rejuvenating” the brand, with only an LE nostalgia goodie thrown in every now and then. Their business decision, obviously.

However, I can see them end up in yet another tough spot with this approach since I’m not sure how they’re going to reconcile the following:

- Pandering to a first time Swiss “luxury watch” (God, I hate that term…) buyer audience.

- Follow the industry trend of selling ever fewer pieces for ever higher prices.

- Create “novel” designs with a relatively high frequency (The younger audiences get bored quickly!) while still harkening back to the unique design clues of their heydays.
 
McBeardy
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A lot to respond to on here, and it's clear the brand is close to many hearts (as it would be on the TH forum). I agree with many on how the brand is the stepping stone for many, and that it has to many SKUs which dilute its identity (which I dont think TH know what it is) The idea of TH modern, lower price quartz could work, with Heuer sticking to 'vintage pieces' for the WiS could work.

We all like different aspects of the brand and watches they produce, which is great, but also possibly blinds us in our views.

Thought this was interesting from Fratello just now, yes mainly about Tudor but Tag is mentioned and where it is the grand scheme.

https://www.fratellowatches.com/tudor-watches-2022-high-range/
 
Aquagraph
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Their history is messier than anyone's, to be honest it seemed to work perfectly well in the late 90s when they had a line up of 'new' watches and a couple or re-issues in the back of the catalogue. If they'd stuck with those watches (or developed them) they would be thirty years old now and firmly established and we'd be talking about what the new 6000 was going to be like. But no, they had to jump on the re-issue bandwagon and confuse everything. And this from a band who shout loudly about being 'Avant Garde'....
 
Pitfitter446
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Yago Yago
I love posh insulting. My colleague called me a primate the other day 🙄
I would consider that a compliment if said to me, and thank whomever said it.😀
 
Perseus
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I guess they don't have any confidence it will sell in sufficient numbers, I mean if it took 2 years to sell out the silver 160 that doesn't exactly inspire confidence does it? Especially when the LE model works so well, selling 600 pieces in a week is so much easier...
I love the watch, but I wonder if the average shopper questions if it's worth 20% more than the Speedmaster and doesn't come on a bracelet.
 
Perseus
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paysdoufs paysdoufs
That “problem” could be easily dealt with: Act as two separate brands in the marketplace:
- TH for the entry-level luxury “mass” market steamrolling the likes of Oris, Longines or even some Tudors. Biggest advantage: The liberty to do some more daring/les conservative stuff that creates visibility.
- Heuer-only for the higher-end vintage inspired pieces. Biggest advantage: That part would create a halo-effect in and of itself.
Wow, what an interesting idea. On the surface it makes a lot of sense given the larger price points the heritage Heuer labelled watches sell at.
 
Hubert
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paysdoufs paysdoufs
That “problem” could be easily dealt with: Act as two separate brands in the marketplace:
- TH for the entry-level luxury “mass” market steamrolling the likes of Oris, Longines or even some Tudors. Biggest advantage: The liberty to do some more daring/les conservative stuff that creates visibility.
- Heuer-only for the higher-end vintage inspired pieces. Biggest advantage: That part would create a halo-effect in and of itself.

Perseus Perseus
Wow, what an interesting idea. On the surface it makes a lot of sense given the larger price points the heritage Heuer labelled watches sell at.

Interestingly, this same idea was proposed several years back on this forum.
 
Mspeedster
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^Yes, suggested several times in fact. However, the flaw in this two tiered idea is that TAG also has some very expensive avant-garde designed watches, that would probably make Jack cringe if branded as "Heuer".
A few recent examples:
1393599-cbdc119ce6fb78266a0ece8d1632ff2e.jpg
1446611-2fc50a7afdaa4dd069a018ad6f034d00.jpg
 
Aquagraph
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I think
Perseus Perseus
I love the watch, but I wonder if the average shopper questions if it's worth 20% more than the Speedmaster and doesn't come on a bracelet.

Maybe not the average shopper, but these watches are generally aimed at very specific customers. The Speedmaster is made in much larger quantities and suffers from a lack of uniqueness by comparison.
 
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