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Jim Dollares
·Wrong price point in the boutiques. That simple!
The LVMH Nepotism era?
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Yago
·But doesn't that mean Tudor has Omega beat too? In my hands the newest Aquaracer 300 looks and feels as premium, if not more premium (at least when it comes to bezel turning feeling), as the Seamaster professional 300.
To me value for money is a strange argument when talking about luxury products. If value for money was what I lusted for I would only collect Longines, Farer, Christopher Ward etc. In reality none of these products present actual value for money since most of these mass produced factory finished products could theoretically be sold for like 500-1000 Euros and still be as good (of course not true when you get into actual luxury, like GS, with more hand made stuff).
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paysdoufs
·Am I just hopelessly poor?
It slightly perturbs me to see the new F1s described as 'aimed at the newb watch collector in the sub £5000 bracket'.
Is it reasonable to think a newb watch collector are willing to spend up to £5000 on a hobby they are just getting into?
To me £5000 is some serious sh*t!
I feel that the current Monaco prices are already questionable. But then again, I had to realize earlier today that even IWC is now dangerously close to a list price of 10k for their 41mm Fliegerchrono with “in-house” caliber (and a printed dial…) 😵💫
Prediction #1 (TH considerations aside): In 5 years from now, no Swiss heavyweight brand will market an in-house chrono below 10k anymore. And no diver (whatever caliber inside) below 5k.
Prediction #1-bis: in 10-20 years from now, they will complain that their clients are dying away (the Harley effect) and that there’s “no appreciation” among the youngsters for “fine Swiss mechanical watchmaking”… 🙄
Prediction #2: TH can be a sheep following that common watch industry strategy of moving less and less pieces for ever higher prices OR they could do something sensibly different from their peers and differentiate themselves as a brand. However, I somehow doubt that their current CEO will be willing to even consider that second option.
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Mspeedster
·I don’t think Omega sells hundreds of thousands of their classic Speedies and Seamasters to watch forum people alone.
Rolex, Omega and Cartier have consistently ranked as the top 3 in the Swiss watch industry. They've done it with classic heritage based designs that harken back to their golden years. When I visit other watch forums, the only TAGs that seem to get any respect are the "faithful" heritage re-issues, such as the C11 Monaco and glassbox Carreras. These don't have to be sold in huge numbers to be considered successful. Just the image of McQueen and his Monaco has surely done wonders for the brand. While the McQueen "halo effect" can't last forever, I don't see how new ambassadors like Jacob Elordi and Sky Brown will move the needle much.
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paysdoufs
·That “problem” could be easily dealt with: Act as two separate brands in the marketplace:
- TH for the entry-level luxury “mass” market steamrolling the likes of Oris, Longines or even some Tudors. Biggest advantage: The liberty to do some more daring/less conservative stuff that creates visibility.
- Heuer-only for the higher-end vintage inspired pieces. Biggest advantage: That part would create a halo-effect in and of itself.
- TH for the entry-level luxury “mass” market steamrolling the likes of Oris, Longines or even some Tudors. Biggest advantage: The liberty to do some more daring/less conservative stuff that creates visibility.
- Heuer-only for the higher-end vintage inspired pieces. Biggest advantage: That part would create a halo-effect in and of itself.
Edited:
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Jim Dollares
·I think you’re either a species going extinct OR the Swiss watch industry has it painfully wrong…
I feel that the current Monaco prices are already questionable. But then again, I had to realize earlier today that even IWC is now dangerously close to a list price of 10k for their 41mm Fliegerchrono with “in-house” caliber (and a printed dial…) 😵💫
Prediction #1 (TH considerations aside): In 5 years from now, no Swiss heavyweight brand will market an in-house chrono below 10k anymore. And no diver (whatever caliber inside) below 5k.
Prediction #1-bis: in 10-20 years from now, they will complain that their clients are dying away (the Harley effect) and that there’s “no appreciation” among the youngsters for “fine Swiss mechanical watchmaking”… 🙄
Prediction #2: TH can be a sheep following that common watch industry strategy of moving less and less pieces for ever higher prices OR they could do something sensibly different from their peers and differentiate themselves as a brand. However, I somehow doubt that their current CEO will be willing to even consider that second option.
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flawless
·I'm thinking of buying a Link Calibre 36 again
Do it! I love my CT511B - ticks all the boxes in just the right ways.
I'd disagree somewhat on Sellita - they're okay movements (at least, the *revisions* are), with one caveat - they're fine in watches under a certain price point. TAG exceeds that point by quite a bit in my opinion, whereas something like a CW C60 is what I'd consider about right.
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Mspeedster
·I think you’re either a species going extinct OR the Swiss watch industry has it painfully wrong…
I feel that the current Monaco prices are already questionable. But then again, I had to realize earlier today that even IWC is now dangerously close to a list price of 10k for their 41mm Fliegerchrono with “in-house” caliber (and a printed dial…) 😵💫
Prediction #1 (TH considerations aside): In 5 years from now, no Swiss heavyweight brand will market an in-house chrono below 10k anymore. And no diver (whatever caliber inside) below 5k.
Prediction #1-bis: in 10-20 years from now, they will complain that their clients are dying away (the Harley effect) and that there’s “no appreciation” among the youngsters for “fine Swiss mechanical watchmaking”… 🙄
Prediction #2: TH can be a sheep following that common watch industry strategy of moving less and less pieces for ever higher prices OR they could do something sensibly different from their peers and differentiate themselves as a brand. However, I somehow doubt that their current CEO will be willing to even consider that second option.
The reason I don't have faith in Frederic yet is because he's pushing prices up but with products that aren't desirable enough to merit the price increases. Moreover, I believe his biggest mistake is believing new wave tributes, rather than faithful re-editions, are the way to go. It feels like he wants to prove that TAG can design better watches than anything Heuer did. He doesn't seem to get that if someone wants to buy an "icon" they want it to look exactly or very close to that icon.
I might have been willing to spend $8200 on a faithful re-issue of the Dark Lord, but the H02 tribute version just didn't do enough for me to justify that kind of money. I doubt the Omega Moonwatch would be as successful if the modern versions had evolved into something different. Even Rolex realized the maxi case Submariner wasn't the right move and has course corrected with its latest version.
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paysdoufs
·(…) I'd disagree somewhat on Sellita - they're okay movements (at least, the *revisions* are), with one caveat - they're fine in watches under a certain price point. TAG exceeds that point by quite a bit in my opinion, whereas something like a CW C60 is what I'd consider about right.
Hence, I don’t think that the discussion should be about TAG, Breitling or CW “only putting Sellitas into their watches”, but what grade they’re using - and whether they communicate that clearly (IMHO, above a certain price-point it HAS to be a decorated Top or Chronometer and nothing else).
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paysdoufs
·I was about to prove you wrong by saying that some were certainly also still available in Roermond (in the NL), but I checked and stand corrected… - They only have H02 skeleton Carreras (for 40% off) 😁
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paysdoufs
·Of which they made far fewer pieces - ‘cause lesson learned 😉 (“Easier to sell less watches at a higher price to make same top line and better bottom line”).
In TH’s defense: They’re not alone. I’ve seen some of Breitling’s airline-themed “capsule” Navitimers linger on sales websites for what felt an eternity…
In TH’s defense: They’re not alone. I’ve seen some of Breitling’s airline-themed “capsule” Navitimers linger on sales websites for what felt an eternity…
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imagwai
·world leaders now deciding we should have extreme inflation to make the middle class poor doesn't exactly help.
Going forward I might focus on cheap watches (below 1k), just haven't decided what direction to take my collection in. Leaning heavily towards gold plated watches, or potentially rainbow themed pieces.
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Aquagraph
·Yes but where are they now? These things don’t age well.
Last time I looked they were in the boutiques, except now they have an inferior 3,6,9 layout and a noisy rotor. And I don't agree that they don't age well. At all. I love mine just as much now as I did in 2016 and I think it still looks absolutely killer.
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Aquagraph
·By definition a 'modern' looking watch doesn't stay 'modern' indefinitely. Something else needs to come along to take it's place. Just as sooner or later something else will take over from Richard Mille. The strength of designing 'old' looking watches is that they look dated from the start so they don't get old looking...
I imagine TAG look at it that a watch has a 5-7 year lifespan at best, I don't think modern watches are things that someone saves up for over 20 years to buy, the vast bulk of sales will dry up after 5-7 years and the next thing comes along.
I imagine TAG look at it that a watch has a 5-7 year lifespan at best, I don't think modern watches are things that someone saves up for over 20 years to buy, the vast bulk of sales will dry up after 5-7 years and the next thing comes along.
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Aquagraph
·Right and going back to the video, TAG Heuer has a rich heritage to rival Omega, but they haven't been able to leverage it as well as their rivals.
Rolex, Omega and Cartier have consistently ranked as the top 3 in the Swiss watch industry. They've done it with classic heritage based designs that harken back to their golden years. When I visit other watch forums, the only TAGs that seem to get any respect are the "faithful" heritage re-issues, such as the C11 Monaco and glassbox Carreras. These don't have to be sold in huge numbers to be considered successful. Just the image of McQueen and his Monaco has surely done wonders for the brand. While the McQueen "halo effect" can't last forever, I don't see how new ambassadors like Jacob Elordi and Sky Brown will move the needle much.
Me neither, but then I feel like I'm not supposed to relate to a 14 year old girl and 20 something actor...
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Aquagraph
·I think it’s problematic to speak about Sellita as if they only did one quality level…
Hence, I don’t think that the discussion should be about TAG, Breitling or CW “only putting Sellitas into their watches”, but what grade they’re using - and whether they communicate that clearly (IMHO, above a certain price-point it HAS to be a decorated Top or Chronometer and nothing else).
Isn't it a bit ridiculous to talk about the legendary 'Calibre11' movement, when it's actually a shitty off the shelf Selitta?
