Seafarer: TAG Heuer x Hodinkee Colab 8/8

[Jim Dollares]

Hubert

@bpsmith @Jim Dollares
Please take it down a notch.

I read my messages again and struggle to see where I posted something inappropriate or disrespectful. But I will learn from this, everyone should obviously be and feel welcome here.

 

[Jim Dollares]

imagwai

[smug mode]I guess it's Ben Clymer, founder of Hodinkee. A 2 sec Google search ("clymer watch") told me that[/smug mode]

Yes thanks, I googled ben clymer now and I do recognize his face from youtube

 

[Anthony.]

 

[Mspeedster]

bpsmith

When someone is paid for making comments of that nature, are we not able to challenge the fact that what people could believe is fact, is not based on fact as they clearly point out they didn’t ask the question?

Genuinely asking, for future reference.

I'll defer to @Hubert, but here's my view...
It's all about how one phrases things. Your response to Jeff was pretty brutal, claiming that his statements were motivated by free dinners. Even now you accuse him of being paid to make such comments, which we don't really know, right?

 

[bpsmith]

Mspeedster

I'll defer to @Hubert, but here's my view...
It's all about how one phrases things. Your response to Jeff was pretty brutal, claiming that his statements were motivated by free dinners. Even now you accuse him of being paid to make such comments, which we don't really know, right?

Agreed, it is up to Hubert.

I will respond to your comment, to explain my feelings though. Jeff volunteered that he was invited to the dinner. No whilst I didn’t explicitly ask the question, my assumption was that this was a free dinner. Posting comments on various platforms extolling this a success and a sell out, in exchange for said dinner, is known as payment. Posting comments like this is a success and a sell out, when we all know that it is still available, would be naughty coming from someone like me outside the industry but coming from a well respected journalist when the question wasn’t actually asked is unprofessional in my view. That’s opinion, coming from me, but read as fact coming from someone widely believed to have the facts before publishing.

Now there may be actual payment involved here, a free watch perhaps, or just said (potentially free) dinner and drinks. Who knows? I won’t be explicitly asking and I don’t expect Jeff to answer either.

What I will say is that I will profusely apologise to Jeff if I was wrong in my assumption that the dinners and associated drinks were not fully paid for by Hodinkee/TAG Heuer, there was no suggestion of any future invites, no free watches were ever received now or previously, etc. No expectation here btw, but just saying that I can wholly admit if I was wrong with my assumption that Jeff hasn’t benefitted from said hype post.

Let’s just accept that journalists used to give an honest and balanced view based on their genuine opinion on a product or brand, but these days all we hear is the hype before they move on to the next thing in their list which they are plugged to hype, however payment is received. This is my opinion and this last paragraph is across the board and not aimed explicitly at Jeff.

I am well aware that this forum, like many others, is a closed shop when it comes to the various connections on here. If you don’t fit then that’s that. I can accept that, but I at least thought that if someone posts something suggesting it’s fact, then we were all able to challenge that just like any journalist would do themselves?

 

[Hubert]

Maintaining cordiality and civility is important to keep the peace. As @Mspeedster said, the way things are phrased, matters. Everyone is welcome to express their opinions, but please do so respectfully to one another. It's really simple for a discussion with strong opinions to escalate.

There will be diverging opinions on any given subject; which is why this is a discussions forum, where people can, and should, express their points of view. The key is to do it respectfully and not result in personal attacks.

Passion runs deep on all of us, don't let that change from a positive into a negative.

 

[bpsmith]

Fair enough. I will rephrase my original comment to @Jeff Stein then, if that’s ok?

Jeff, what was your basis for your statement that this release is an outright success and was already sold out days ago? Was this solely what TAG Heuer told you or is this your personal opinion?

I ask as I can still add 3 to my cart on Hodinkee and they have not yet been added to the TAG Heuer website in my region, with the option to add my name to the waiting list suggesting stock is still available with them also.

Are you also able to confirm whether this dinner was fully paid for by Hodinkee/TAG Heuer? Finally, are you able to confirm whether you now have this watch in your collection and, if so, was this fully paid for at RRP?

I ask so that I can get a feel for the occasion and what it was like, as I have never had the luxury of attending such an interesting event. I ask about the watch so that I can get your actual feeling for the piece and whether you felt it was worth purchasing at full price.

 

[Hubert]

@bpsmith
You have made your points of view known. Attempting to reengage in a polite fashion is not in the spirit of maintaining a constructive discussion. Let's move on, please. Thanks.

 

[Frank755]

I’m new to this forum, and I joined because I know that all the participants here are true fans of the HEUER brand, especially Jeff Stein, who is a reference in the field with his site OnTheDash.com.

If you have any doubts about Jeff’s analysis and integrity, I encourage you to simply read the article he wrote about the launch of this watch. The article, available on his website, is professionally crafted, especially considering that he is now recognized as an expert in the watchmaking industry.

His unique status makes it entirely appropriate that he was invited, given his history, seniority, and deep knowledge of this brand that we all love: Heuer.

The allusions made are unacceptable as they do not constitute constructive criticism but rather an attempt to undermine the work and a point of view that, even if debatable, deserves respect.

The various comments above are distasteful enough not to warrant further attention. We are all here to share our common passion, not to settle scores.

« Sorry for my English, I’m French »

 

[abrod520]

Well here's mine on the wrist.



First impressions of this one are a bit strange for a TAG. Because unlike most of the other ones, this one isn't mainlining fun or racy vibes.

Instead, it's... elegant. The polished details shine when they catch the light sure, but it's anything but flashy. It's almost bordering on dressy, even.

Sporty and elegant in near equal measure - sounds familiar; sounds like the description of the original Carrera. It's excellent.

 

[dtf]

abrod520

Well here's mine on the wrist.



First impressions of this one are a bit strange for a TAG. Because unlike most of the other ones, this one isn't mainlining fun or racy vibes.

Instead, it's... elegant. The polished details shine when they catch the light sure, but it's anything but flashy. It's almost bordering on dressy, even.

Sporty and elegant in near equal measure - sounds familiar; sounds like the description of the original Carrera. It's excellent.

This looks great on the wrist, nice vintage vibe but with a modern flair. Best glassbox so far

 

[Aquagraph]

Frank755

If you have any doubts about Jeff’s analysis and integrity, I encourage you to simply read the article he wrote about the launch of this watch. The article, available on his website, is professionally crafted, especially considering that he is now recognized as an expert in the watchmaking industry.

To be fair to Ben and Jeff, there's no doubt that Jeff can write and he definitely knows his stuff... but you must admit that the standard of OBJECTIVE journalism in the watch industry at large is minimal at best these days and since Ben Clymer doesn't come here and Jeff does I suppose it's inevitable that he will be the one taking the flack for it.

I don't read 'On the Dash' so I can't speak with authority regarding Jeff, and maybe he chooses to only write about watches he likes, which is fair enough - it's his choice / his website of course (if he wrote about every watch TAG released and he was gushing about all of them that would be a different matter). But let's be honest, as far as 'mainstream media' is concerned (unless you write for A Blog To Watch of course) nothing is ever presented in a negative light.

Unfortunately with the rise of social media and so called 'influencers' you would think that varied opinions would abound, but of course not. Everything is 'amazing', from the smallest make-up brush to the most expensive HiFi and there are no prizes for guessing why that is.

On the flipside to that, I saw the other day that some poor guy who dared to post a negative review of a hifi speaker (I think it was) on YouTube was threatened with a lawsuit by the manufacturer. Thankfully the company saw the error of it's ways once the guy posted on his youtube account that he was being sued and the person involved was fired/left. But that is truly appalling. Bribing people to say nice things is one thing, threatening court action if you don't is quite another.

 

[Aquagraph]

Sorry Hubert, I know you'd rather I didn't post this but I think I've been fair to all concerned.

 

[bpsmith]

That’s exactly where I am coming from Rob.

Let’s have some genuine honest reviews for a change.

Talking of cordial and civil responses, should I take the same offence to the post by this alleged new member @Frank755, who only signed up to have a pop at me? @Hubert ?

Anyway, that’s all I am going to say in this thread.

 

[Pitfitter446]

Maybe the reason I take anything a journalist says with a truckload of salt, a bit like politicians.

 

[Frank755]

This is my first post but I've been registered for some time.
I'm not a presumed registered member to stigmatise anyone. On the contrary ....

The subject was interesting enough for me to take the time to give my point of view.
What I see: unnecessary suspicion.
We're not talking here about clinical studies, drugs or the ethics of experts, even if they are journalists in their spare time.

As far as I'm concerned, I've loved watches for 40 years.
And I know JS's track record, even if his favouritism towards the brand is obvious given the quality and quantity of his collection.

To end this pointless debate:
Read onthedash! It's fascinating for lovers of Heuer; wristwatches or dashboards (my passion).

 

[Mspeedster]

Aquagraph

.. but you must admit that the standard of OBJECTIVE journalism in the watch industry at large is minimal at best these days and since Ben Clymer doesn't come here and Jeff does I suppose it's inevitable that he will be the one taking the flack for it.

I don't read 'On the Dash' so I can't speak with authority regarding Jeff

If you did read or follow On The Dash, you would know that Jeff has dedicated the last 21+ years chronicling vintage Heuer. It's a passion and hobby of his. So of course, he's got a strong bias and affinity for certain TAG Heuer releases. He's not a typical watch media journalist IMHO, but more of a historian focused on Heuer/TAG Heuer.

To unleash one's frustration on him because of what other sites, such as Hodinkee etc., write is unwarranted IMHO.

 

[Aquagraph]

Mspeedster

If you did read or follow On The Dash, you would know that Jeff has dedicated the last 21+ years chronicling vintage Heuer. It's a passion and hobby of his. So of course, he's got a strong bias and affinity for certain TAG Heuer releases. He's not a typical watch media journalist IMHO, but more of a historian focused on Heuer/TAG Heuer.

That's pretty much what I said isn't it? I agree, he's not a journalist.... he picks and chooses to write about the things he likes and that interest him.

Generally I don't read OTD because I have no interest in vintage watches. I do occasionally read his articles about new watches.

Edited: Aug 17, 2024

 

[Mspeedster]

Aquagraph

That's pretty much what I said isn't it? I agree, he's not a journalist.... he picks and chooses to write about the things he likes and that interest him.

Generally I don't read OTD because I have no interest in vintage watches. I do occasionally read his articles about new watches.

Not really. Seemed like you were trying to justify some of the comments made here because of the lack of objective journalism at large.

I do agree that most sites are not as objective as they should be. But even if someone like Ben Clymer of Hodinkee were to post here, I'd welcome his presence and treat him with the same courtesy & respect that everyone deserves. @Jeff Stein brings a wealth of knowledge with him, the forum is a richer place when he engages in discussion.

Having said that, I've had the good fortune of attending one of those exclusive TAG Heuer dinners in the past. There's an excitement and buzz that one can get from such an event. Which may have contributed to Jeff's optimistic view of a quick sellout of these Seafarers. But I'd take personal offense if someone were to insinuate that my comments or actions were the result of being bribed by a dinner.

 

[bpsmith]

Well, after @Hubert told everyone to move on, it appears everyone else has now piped up and none of those responses today are cordial or civil either.