Auction Discussion- TAG Heuer

abrod520
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Watched the Fellows Auction today, there were quite a few TAGs but the sale of the day was a Speedmaster that had a guide price of £9-14,000 and sold for £88,000! It wasn't even in good condition, moreover it wasn't even in working condition! Crazy!!!

https://www.fellows.co.uk/2180-lot-...ort_by=&style=&sub_cat=&view=lot_detail&year=
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Clearly there must be something special about it or it wouldn't have had that estimate, but what? Tropical dial? Whatever it is you'd think the auction house would have mentioned it in the listing wouldn't you?

Tropical dials bring a premium, especially when they're so even as this one. However, notice the bezel is different from most Speedmaster bezels - it's marked "Tachymetre Base 1000" - these bezels alone are worth around $10,000 right now. They're only correct for a narrow range of Speedmasters, but those are among the earliest and most valuable, so a Base 1000 bezel is extremely sought after by a certain segment of watch collectors.

Oh, and this watch can be brought back to running condition very easily 😉 It's the external parts (such as the aforementioned bezel) that are the most difficult bits to get right on one of these
 
Aquagraph
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abrod520 abrod520
These bezels alone are worth around $10,000 right now.

It beggars belief really that a bezel can be worth $10,000... but I get it, you know - 'worth' is determined by supply and demand - it's just hard to believe that there are enough people desperate enough to part with that sort of money to drive the price up so much. But then you only have to look at Rolex prices to see that there's a degree of insanity running through the minds of watch collectors... thank God the watches I like are still available at sensible prices!
 
THJunkie
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Some of the Speedmasters in either vintage rarity or more recent limited editions fetch way way more than reason dictates. I think there’s quite a bubble to be honest. I saw a LE ‘moonwatch’ in a ‘ vintage’ / collectors watch boutique in Amsterdam a few weeks ago for around £12k. Watch when new a few years ago was probably £5k (LE). The regular watch is around £3.5k.

Only real difference (appart from a very fancy presentation box) was a graphic of Snoopy on one of the sub dials!

So I guess a vintage 1st of kind bezel could be worth huge amounts too.

I do aomwtimes wonder if I’m brarmey paying similar money for TH and Omega watches that will no doobt be worth <1/2 what I pay for them after a few years rather than having fewer pieces that are more sought after and likely to hold value or increase. (No meed to answer, my wife already told me i’m crazy!) 😁

But if I paid £12k for a rare Speedmaster or £25k for a Daytona, I think i’d be too scared to wear it daily. So i rather have more ‘modest’ pieces that I won’t cry too loudly if something unforeseen happens.

Each their own I guess. Still, interesting to observe these auctions and see what others value.
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abrod520
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It beggars belief really that a bezel can be worth $10,000

Well, when added to an otherwise complete Speedmaster (references it belongs to are 2915-3, and 2998-1 thru -3) those watches are worth somewhere north of $50k even without tropical dials. Without the bezel, the watch might struggle to bring $20k (since the bezels are basically unobtainium). Bezels were basically considered consumables since they're on the front lines for dings and scratches, and many were replaced over the years, so the number of watches is higher than the number of Base 1000 bezels out there. So, your $10k purchase of a loose Base 1000 bezel translates into a $30k+ increase in value for your watch
 
THJunkie
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It beggars belief really that a bezel can be worth $10,000... but I get it, you know - 'worth' is determined by supply and demand - it's just hard to believe that there are enough people desperate enough to part with that sort of money to drive the price up so much. But then you only have to look at Rolex prices to see that there's a degree of insanity running through the minds of watch collectors... thank God the watches I like are still available at sensible prices!

TH luckily or unluckily depending on perspective - are not particulrly prized by those with deep pockets it seem - with the exception of a few examples in vintage or very limited edition.

I had to laugh at a TH store recently. The sales person was trying to convince me how ‘sought after’ the Cal 36 Carrera was with collectors. The point I made about being sold at a heavy doscount and that there was more than one in the outlet seemed to go over their head. Still - a nice watch with an interesting gimmick and a good movement - so who cares right? Collectability does not diminish enjoyment of the watch itself in my eyes.
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abrod520
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THJunkie THJunkie
TH luckily or unluckily depending on perspective - are not particulrly prized by those with deep pockets it seem - with the exception of a few examples in vintage or very limited edition.

TAGs no, because they've always been fashion watches. But Heuers have been quite sought-after in recent years... Any '60s screw-back Autavia is going to be a minimum 5-figure watch, even 2446Cs are approaching that level; 2447 Carreras had a short spike to mid 5-figures but have slowed down lately. Any Chronomatic is going to be somewhere in the 20k range (for a Carrera, if you can find one) to 40+ for an Autavia or Monaco.
 
THJunkie
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Indeed vintages and especially old ‘real’ Heuers are saught after. Inwas not trying to say that TH and H never appreciate and that nobody collects them or oays a high premium for good examples. Simplybthat relative to some other beands that the keenessbod fhe bidding is not so sharp. I guess my point was that even the LE newer TH watches barely hold their RRP. Even a nonsense Speedy Tuesday LE will go for £2 or £3k above days after release (might not be sustaineable for all LEs), compared to some current LE Tags and even limited re issue Heiera who h can e had at a sizable discount even whilst still on TH website for sale today.

Example - JH 85 Autavia. £4,850 new. Can be had brand new from AD for well under £4k.

speedy Ultraman. Sold out rep (I think near £5.5k), going for closer to £7k on resale market right now. Whether that will be sustainable of course remains to be seen.

Not saying any are better or worse or TH bashing at all. Simply saying that in the grand scheme things newer Tags/Heuers are rarely in demand as much as (roughly) comparable Omages (just as an example). And that was my point - that ‘luckily’ for TH/H collectors and fans it makes aqcuiring desirable pieces relatively easier.

And yes as you rightly point out there are vintage examples reaching high prices. But again not reaching anywhere near the highes of (some) other collectable brands. Example of relative ease of attainability would I imagine be (only speculating based on my limited research and knowledge) a Snoopy Speedmaster vs a Skipper Carerra. The former requiring much deeper pockets - given both are comparable ‘modern’ LE of classic watches.

Maybe I’m talking out my ***. Happy to be corrected. But that’s my perception. I’ll admit to only having familiarised myself with the subject in recent months.

Hoping to bag my first (already) sold out LE of Santa is kind. Just waiting on delivery 😁. Will probably be the only watch i’ve bought which is going to be anywhere near hold any noticable value :whipped:.
 
abrod520
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True but like I said, TAG has long since turned their backs on true watch enthusiasts. Now, not enough people care about Jack Heuer's 85th birthday or the Autavia in general to prop up prices of those. And the people who fall for the "limited edition" soccer team / city boutique / whatever watches that TAG pumps out find that they have to offer a serious discount to sell afterwards, since most of the stock remains unsold and nobody wants them. The watches that appreciate are the ones that are desired by collectors; nothing that TAG makes nowadays even approximates a desirable piece. They caught lightning in a bottle with the Skipper, and there's more resale value in the Siffert than others, but otherwise each new version of the Heuer-01 watches just falls flat with collectors.
 
THJunkie
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abrod520 abrod520
True but like I said, TAG has long since turned their backs on true watch enthusiasts

....

Hopefully things like the new Calibers and the TdV are signs that things are changing in the right direction. I’m honestly no expert as you can probably guess, but i think that some of the vintage re issues have hit the spot. Maybe not in of residuals due to the volumes. I think over 2000 for an LE is nonsense and going to kill resales and collectability - which lets face it is for most part bragging rights driven by desirability and scarcity relative to supply and demand. Also the limited ‘special’ elements (same bloody strap on most of them!!!) also don’t help. Adding a different colour bezel or adding another logo (except maybe Gulf) does not do it for me. They’re not alone with piss poor LE gimmickry in some cases to be fair. I’d love to see some truly LE classic pieces with some extra ‘pizzaz’. I’ve not yet ventured into the vintage market. Maybe it is time I took a peek. Though my watch budget is well and truly blown this year. So will have to save for quite a while before another piece arrives.

I really love the Monaco 24 or Cal 36(?) - the chunky one with a bit of industrial design. Also hanker after a Monza. And will no doubt be a sucker for another Carrera or two in time. The TsV or a similar Tourbi 01/02 Carrera does appeal too - some ofnthe skeletonized versions look stunning I think. But I want to see the finish improve a tad and some better executed PM touches to warrant spending that kind of money on anything other than a Rolex (which i don’t yet own at all - silly me - could have jumped the Q by now to have a SS Sub or Daytona quite easily I think!!!)

One big area to give TH some kudos - they are out there on the smartwatch front. And as a mass producer they’ll need to be to appeal to the next gen and be around to fund making more mechanicals for the dwindling number of ‘traditionalists’ whether collectors, enthusiasts or not. So whilst I have no desire for a smartwatch, got to respdct what they’ve acheived there and realise that it will have taken a lotnof focus away from new innovations in the traditional space.
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Aquagraph
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abrod520 abrod520
True but like I said, TAG has long since turned their backs on true watch enthusiasts. Now, not enough people care about Jack Heuer's 85th birthday or the Autavia in general to prop up prices of those. And the people who fall for the "limited edition" soccer team / city boutique / whatever watches that TAG pumps out find that they have to offer a serious discount to sell afterwards, since most of the stock remains unsold and nobody wants them. The watches that appreciate are the ones that are desired by collectors; nothing that TAG makes nowadays even approximates a desirable piece. They caught lightning in a bottle with the Skipper, and there's more resale value in the Siffert than others, but otherwise each new version of the Heuer-01 watches just falls flat with collectors.

I don't honestly think TAG's resale is worse than any other comparable make. TAG are in a funny position, being the entry level of luxury... I'd say any company in that market would struggle to get good resale. Maybe if people stopped buying watches as 'investments' and started buying watches they like and are going to want to continue to own this wouldn't be a problem. I seem to remember those 'awful' Alec Monopoly F1's sold out in 24-48 hours and I don't see any of those going for half nothing...
 
Aquagraph
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Seems awfully cheap at the moment... wonder how much more it would be worth with the 'correct' logo?
 
Yago
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Seems awfully cheap at the moment... wonder how much more it would be worth with the 'correct' logo?
You mean the Heuer only logo? 😀
 
Yago
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Yeah... because you know 'people'.
As this was the first modern Carrera under Tag Heuer and it marked the start of the rebirth of the Carrera line, the Tag Heuer badge is very much appropriate
 
Aquagraph
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Yago Yago
As this was the first modern Carrera under Tag Heuer and it marked the start of the rebirth of the Carrera line, the Tag Heuer badge is very much appropriate

I agree, I'd prefer it. If I ever buy a Monaco it will be badged TAG Heuer... but there's no point trying to deny that if this had 'Heuer' logo on it it would be worth more. Even though it would be exactly the same watch, made in the exact same places...
 
OttoWilliam
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I agree, I'd prefer it. If I ever buy a Monaco it will be badged TAG Heuer... but there's no point trying to deny that if this had 'Heuer' logo on it it would be worth more. Even though it would be exactly the same watch, made in the exact same places...
For the square case, i think they should leave it for Heuer.

But for the updated case (which i think they don't produce anymore), the Monaco24 case i think it should be through and through Tag Heuer.

Speaking of which, i missed my Tag Heuer Monaco. I sold it but i still think about it a lot.
 
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