Watches and Wonders 2023

[Y Cymro]

Aquagraph

It's a funny thing watches, it's like they never actually give you what you want because they think then they'll lose you as a customer. Like they did the Dark Lord, but not really... it would be interesting to hear Frederic's thoughts on your idea. I guess it would depend on the potential sales as to whether they think it's worth it? Isn't part of the problem now that the new watches are so expensive it almost makes more sense to buy the originals?

Definitely agree about watch opinions and requirements - we all have at least one - though I assume that our individual requirements aren’t really as individual as we may think and these watches sell well - the special edition Heuer Carreras sell out quickly enough, and in these crazy FOMO times I’d be convinced that other vintage re-releases would do the same. I’d also like to think that someone at the highest level of TH must be banging his or her table as an enthusiast in support of maintaining the Heuer brand, and dare I say it, as an ‘influencer’ within and without the organisation. Together with Red Bull, TH sponsors no end of sports including the F1 team. Would they not be the perfect vehicle (hmm) for the Heuer brand? Or whilst I’m still dreaming, imagine seeing TH remain a sponsor on the Red Bull car, and with a big Heuer sticker on the nose of the scarlet Ferrari? Ooof!

I agree with you too about buying the vintage real thing instead now that new watch prices are increasing so greatly and regularly towards the old ones. But with a nice 2447NS or a 2446 Rindt being upwards of £15k, there must be a place for brand new, similar looking watches with modern movements and 5 year warranties, that are water resistant and can be worn reasonably comfortably everyday (with the caveat that there’s still ~£6k sitting vulnerably on your wrist).

I’d love to know Frederic’s thoughts too about Heuer’s future, because I’m still hopeful that more new models (in a suitably vintage size) will come along.

 

[Y Cymro]

Aquagraph

Actually maybe deleting it would make sense. Surely it's time for a slightly different version to get all those SMQ fans juiced up again and of course some will buy again, no incentive to buy the 211P if you've already got one. Maybe they make it 38mm and the forum loses its mind?

Tudor is working a similar business model for the Black Bay and doing exceptionally well from it (divers, no divers bezel, tool watch/dressy-ish, chronograph, 3 hand, date, no date, huge range of sizes suitable for everyone, different colours and metals, bracelets, natos, leather straps - strewth!). I picked up a BB54 a couple of weeks ago, and think it’s exceptional for the price (though I also think that the price is daft, just like all current luxury watches). If it had a Rolex badge (and why not, it is very good?) it would be worth/would cost much more - and nothing is changed except badge engineering. And this returns me very nicely to the TAG / Heuer separation strategy ;-)

 

[Mspeedster]

abrod520

I've never heard that rumor. What did happen was, during the pandemic the parts for the 211P were in particularly short supply, so boutiques and ADs expected not to get very many of them for a bit. That's clearly over now as there's a 211P in every TAG display

McBeardy

I was told by the AD when i collected mine in Febrary/ March the 211P was to be discontinued this year. Also from another forum possible before Christmas, I saw screen grabs that WoS by email confirming 211P to be discontinued

This sounds very similar to the rumor of the Omega NTTD Seamaster's discontinuance, which was propagated by Omega Boutiques. When I was shopping for mine last year, several Boutiques were saying it would be discontinued soon. Many on the Omega Forum were hearing the same. But in reality, there was just a shortage that made it hard for Boutiques to get them for a certain time period. Then when the 60th Anniversary Bond watch was announced late last year, again the Boutiques started to say the NTTD would be phased out, since there's a new Bond watch coming.

Yet here we are today, the NTTD Seamaster is very much alive and available everywhere, much like the C11 Monaco McQueen.

 

[Mspeedster]

Having said that, the Monaco CAW211P is certainly overdue for a replacement. I hope they do something similar to what Tudor did with the BB54. Improve the McQueen by making it slimmer & smaller, with the correct vintage style pushers, and most importantly a COSC in-house movement.

 

[Aquagraph]

It makes sense to replace.. all you will buy the new one. There you go, instant £300,000!

 

[dtf]

Mspeedster

Having said that, the Monaco CAW211P is certainly overdue for a replacement. I hope they do something similar to what Tudor did with the BB54. Improve the McQueen by making it slimmer & smaller, with the correct vintage style pushers, and most importantly a COSC in-house movement.

I agree, but I don’t hold much hope. When have TAG ever made anything slimmer or used the correct pushers?

 

[Aquagraph]

Okay. So let's say TAG did make this smaller,slimmer Monaco with round pushers and a better movement. How much more are you willing to pay for it? Breitling seem to think a better movement puts £4000 on the price of a watch so would ypu be willing to pay £10,000? £11,000? £12,000?

 

[Aquagraph]

Anthony.R

Hey Rob

If you could ask Frédéric anything at all what would the number 1 thing be?

I would ask him when are you going to make a Monaco with round pushers?

Or, please could he ask Jack Heuer why he ever thought putting round pushers on a square watch was a good idea...

 

[Yago]

Y Cymro

Tudor is working a similar business model for the Black Bay and doing exceptionally well from it (divers, no divers bezel, tool watch/dressy-ish, chronograph, 3 hand, date, no date, huge range of sizes suitable for everyone, different colours and metals, bracelets, natos, leather straps - strewth!). I picked up a BB54 a couple of weeks ago, and think it’s exceptional for the price (though I also think that the price is daft, just like all current luxury watches). If it had a Rolex badge (and why not, it is very good?) it would be worth/would cost much more - and nothing is changed except badge engineering. And this returns me very nicely to the TAG / Heuer separation strategy ;-)

I agree Tudors are very good and compared to other brands in the segment value for money. But a simple badge switch won't make it a Rolex. Biggest issue I have with Tudor is that their case design is sloppy. Their GMT is about 50% thicker than Rolex, it's massive on the wrist, lacks the typical Rolex sophistication. Of course this is done on purpose

 

[Yago]

Aquagraph

Maybe they make it 38mm and the forum loses its mind?

The dream

 

[Aquagraph]

That one can't be the dream cos it has square pushers....

But if it had nice shiny round pushers how much are you gonna pay TAG to make it?

 

[Yago]

Aquagraph

That one can't be the dream cos it has square pushers....

But if it had nice shiny round pushers how much are you gonna pay TAG to make it?

round pushers are a thing of the past. Plenty of good vintage Monacos out there with round pushers for equal money or less than a new Monaco. This one is 38mm however

 

[Aquagraph]

See, you guys can't even agree on what you want, how are TAG supposed to get it right?

 

[Yago]

The Monaco is probably TAG Heuer's most succesful design. Suited for an arry of classic looks like the MCQ but also avant garde skeleton designs and yet immediately recognizable and unique in the watch world. The case design hasn't really changed since the first re-edition of the '90s, only made slightly larger and unfortunately also thicker. Round pushers are most probably never coming back and that's a good thing. Although I still prefer the classic 1133 look myself, the current design is much more contemporary. We still need that crown on the left, not because it looks better but because of the heritage and uniqueness of the feature. Like the Panerai crown guard or Cartier's blue crown.

 

[Aquagraph]

Look, I agree, I think the square pushers look waaay better and the faceted case is much better too. But, if you want a close as possible tribute to SMQ then surely you need round pushers otherwise it's always gonna be a 'yeah but'. My question was how much is a 'perfect' copy of the SMQ worth that most people here seem to want....?

 

[imagwai]

I do prefer round pushers I'm afraid. Just purely from an aesthetic point of view. Never liked those square pushers on the Monaco.

 

[Yago]

Aquagraph

Look, I agree, I think the square pushers look waaay better and the faceted case is much better too. But, if you want a close as possible tribute to SMQ then surely you need round pushers otherwise it's always gonna be a 'yeah but'. My question was how much is a 'perfect' copy of the SMQ worth that most people here seem to want....?

It's pure hypothetical as TAG Heuer will never produce it, it's not in their DNA. Every re-issue we've seen has been a nod to the original but nothing more. The 60th panda came as close to the original 2447sn as TAG wanted it to be. The current MCQ might even be closer to the original 1133b than that. I will never get closer. Round pushers, forget it. Also I wouldn't be in line for a watch like that. Priced at +10k I'll look for an original that will still be valuable in 20 years.

 

[McBeardy]

Personally prefer the reissue McQueen, square case/ square pushers and LH crown all work better visually and harmoniously. If it had the round pushers more rectangle case, I personally wouldn't want one.

Each to their own of course & I get people want a 113b but modern. Doubt TH will ever do that, nor any swiss major brand, They all look to produce a modern reinterpretation, which is fine for me, vintage style cues but modern tech.

 

[McBeardy]

Yago

The dream

If that had a LH crown, hubba hubba!

 

[dtf]

imagwai

I do prefer round pushers I'm afraid. Just purely from an aesthetic point of view. Never liked those square pushers on the Monaco.

square watch, square pushers. Round watch, round pushers. Simplez.