James Bond 007 thread

abrod520
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nobody wanted an all female Ghostbusters, but we got it and it was a terrible failure

Yeah but this wasn't because they were women. It was because the writers and director somehow managed to take four of the funniest people on the planet (no, not women, people) and make a generic, lazy, stupidass movie. Because that's what it was - they were too lazy to come up with something original, so they figured "Ghostbusters, but with women" would be enough to coast on.

Nonwhite and nonmale characters are what audiences want, just not in the same boring-ass package.
 
bpsmith
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My view is that we should make it easy for any actor / actress / acting person to audition for new character roles irrespective of their background. No blocks put into place aside from specific situations where this isn’t possible, like in non-fiction etc.

I agree that we shouldn’t sign up to reinventing characters just for the sake of it. It’s just plain wrong.
 
Jim Dollares
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You know what this conversation needs? For @Hubert to spice things up with a photo bomb of his new NO TIME TO DIE Omiiiiiga.
 
Aquagraph
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abrod520 abrod520
Yeah but this wasn't because they were women. It was because the writers and director somehow managed to take four of the funniest people on the planet (no, not women, people) and make a generic, lazy, stupidass movie. Because that's what it was - they were too lazy to come up with something original, so they figured "Ghostbusters, but with women" would be enough to coast on.

Yes, you're probably right (I haven't seen it) although we might have different ideas about who and what is funny, but if you're going to make a movie like that then you must realise that it needs to be good, otherwise you're not doing women a good service at all, like Bernie said about having a black F1 driver. He's gotta be good. Same with Bond, if we're going to have Idris Elba then it needs to be up there with the best Bond films ever made or it's gonna get panned.

abrod520 abrod520
Nonwhite and nonmale characters are what audiences want, just not in the same boring-ass package.

But they also don't want the things they know and love messed with. If you ask 100 people are you racist then most of them will say no, if you ask them if they are happy to watch women and non white characters take leading rolls in films most of them will say yes, but then ask them if they are happy for Luke Skywalker to be black, or indeed James Bond, that's probably a different story.

I mean for gods sake, a lot of people thought casting Tom Cruise as Jack Reacher was ridiculous because JR's whole schtick was that he is extremely tall and conspicuous!
 
abrod520
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if you ask them if they are happy to watch women and non white characters take leading rolls in films most of them will say yes, but then ask them if they are happy for Luke Skywalker to be black, or indeed James Bond, that's probably a different story.

That's what I've been saying. James Bond and Luke Skywalker are boring old stories we keep retelling. Saying we should have a black or female James Bond or Luke Skywalker misses the point entirely, which is that we should be telling fresh stories with diverse casts. Not the same old shit in a different color.
 
Aquagraph
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abrod520 abrod520
That's what I've been saying. James Bond and Luke Skywalker are boring old stories we keep retelling. Saying we should have a black or female James Bond or Luke Skywalker misses the point entirely, which is that we should be telling fresh stories with diverse casts. Not the same old shit in a different color.

Yes, but franchises are everything these days...
 
bpsmith
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.But they also don't want the things they know and love messed with. If you ask 100 people are you racist then most of them will say no, if you ask them if they are happy to watch women and non white characters take leading rolls in films most of them will say yes, but then ask them if they are happy for Luke Skywalker to be black, or indeed James Bond, that's probably a different story.

Kind of agree. If Luke Skywalker is a new character, I am more than happy for him to be black. As happy as if he were white or Asian, etc. If he’s an existing character over three trilogies and additional side movies, not at all, as doesn’t make sense.

On a similar note, regarding the subtleties of equality, some of the press about the Black Panther movies really pi$$ed me off. Headlines like “One of the best black action movies ever made.”. Now I know some people don’t like Marvel, but I happen to be a fan. It was a fantastic movie and should have just had a review stating “One of the best action movies ever made.”

The addition of the word “black” suggests an opinion that “it’s good…for a black movie”. Very subtle but massive difference.
 
Mspeedster
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But I guess as a brand 'James Bond' is probably up there with Rolex and Coca Cola. But like Rolex and Coca Cola, people know what it is and they don't want it messing with!
Yup. I'm still stuck in the 60s, when Bond wore the correct watch... 🙄
20210406_141219c.jpg 20210406_142659.jpg
 
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bpsmith bpsmith
Kind of agree. If Luke Skywalker is a new character, I am more than happy for him to be black. As happy as if he were white or Asian, etc. If he’s an existing character over three trilogies and additional side movies, not at all, as doesn’t make sense.

100% agree!

bpsmith bpsmith
On a similar note, regarding the subtleties of equality, some of the press about the Black Panther movies really pi$$ed me off. Headlines like “One of the best black action movies ever made.”. Now I know some people don’t like Marvel, but I happen to be a fan. It was a fantastic movie and should have just had a review stating “One of the best action movies ever made.”
The addition of the word “black” suggests an opinion that “it’s good…for a black movie”. Very subtle but massive difference.

Yes, I haven't seen it, but by all accounts it's supposed to be a very good movie (of that genre), so yes why quantify it?


What I don't think is acceptable though is for 'real' people to be played by people of different ethnicity. Like Anne Boleyn being played by a black woman on TV recently. She wasn't black, she was white. That's a fact. I wouldn't expect Martin Luther King to be played by Jet Li or Robert Pattinson either. Because it would be completely stupid. Just because Anne Boleyn lived a long time ago doesn't change the fact that she was white.

And while we're at it, not that I'm at all sure he actually existed, but Jesus clearly WASN'T white.
 
bpsmith
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True enough about real life people. No question about it.

That final paragraph is next level though. How has that gone in for so long!?!
 
abrod520
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Yes, but franchises are everything these days...

Sadly this is true 🙁 Originality and daring is more or less gone from movie studio business plans nowadays. Which is why TV is where it's at (speaking of diversity and representation, go watch Reservation Dogs as soon as it's available! What a wonderful show that was.)

bpsmith bpsmith
On a similar note, regarding the subtleties of equality, some of the press about the Black Panther movies really pi$$ed me off. Headlines like “One of the best black action movies ever made.”. Now I know some people don’t like Marvel, but I happen to be a fan. It was a fantastic movie and should have just had a review stating “One of the best action movies ever made.”

Meanwhile I don't care who's playing the Marvel hero, it bores me silly 😜 (have not seen Black Panther but I checked out after the nineteenth Thor movie a couple years ago)
 
Aquagraph
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Oh, also in that Independent review, they take exception to the fact that so many Bond villains have facial disfigurements... because it creates the stereotype that all people with facial disfigurements are evil or something. 🙄
 
abrod520
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Oh, also in that Independent review, they take exception to the fact that so many Bond villains have facial disfigurements... because it creates the stereotype that all people with facial disfigurements are evil or something. 🙄

Well honestly look at it from someone with a facial disfigurement's perspective... if in these huge movies, the only time you see yourself is in someone who's lost their mind trying to kill everyone or take over the world, I can certainly see how it could bum you out... no?
 
Anthony.
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It all boils down to the fact that Bond is established, it's hard to establish something new - but equally I don't really see why something that is established has to be changed just for the sake of it. Are we going to end up with a situation where we have a black Bond, a black Spiderman, a black Batman and a black Poirot? Just so we can say 'we're promoting equality'? The problem is now it's not like 'oh we're taking a new direction and we've decided off our own backs to use an actor who happens to be black', it's all pressure and justification and being seen to do the right thing, even if the audience doesn't necessarily want that - which is where the problem lies. Do you give the audience what pressure groups are telling you they 'should' want, or do you give them what they actually want? Again, nobody wanted an all female Ghostbusters, but we got it and it was a terrible failure. So does each franchise have to go through this 'look we tried' situation before they can go back to where they were?

Nothing is OK as it was anymore.
We need to pander to the Snowflake society and if you don't look out.
Absolutely pathetic.
 
Jim Dollares
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Hubert Hubert
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Superbly cool!! What are your impressions? I am particularly interested in your thoughts on the crystal which Adam finds too reflective?
 
Aquagraph
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abrod520 abrod520
Well honestly look at it from someone with a facial disfigurement's perspective... if in these huge movies, the only time you see yourself is in someone who's lost their mind trying to kill everyone or take over the world, I can certainly see how it could bum you out... no?

Okay, but where do you draw the line. What about people with a limp? Does everyone who's lost a finger get upset when they watch a Yakuza movie?
 
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