Autavia Heuer 02 US boutique edition going at Bicester Village

Aquagraph
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I think TAG would like to concentrate on high ticket luxury items but in order to do that they would have to ditch the lower end stuff with no guarantees of success. They tried to do that around 2000, ditched the F1, but brought it back in 2004.
 
Mspeedster
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The WOS Aquaracer is kind of what the 844 should have been.
Which hasn't exactly flown off the shelves either for a 500 piece LE. It's still available.

Both the WOS Aquaracer and WOS Carrera are more examples of TAG branded lower numbered LEs that have taken a while to sell out.

The 50 piece Hawaii Aquaracer also took a while. The Hawaii Boutique had to send their remaining stock to other US Boutiques in order to sell all 50.
 
Mspeedster
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I definitely think any heritage re-issue has a sales ceiling and probably quite low. Still 600-1000 x £6000 is not to be sneezed at.
I disagree. The C11 Monaco McQueen is a consistent strong seller. As mentioned before, it's their #1 sales model in a fairly large country.
 
Jim Dollares
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Which hasn't exactly flown off the shelves either for a 500 piece LE. It's still available.

Both the WOS Aquaracer and WOS Carrera are more examples of TAG branded lower numbered LEs that have taken a while to sell out.

The 50 piece Hawaii Aquaracer also took a while. The Hawaii Boutique had to send their remaining stock to other US Boutiques in order to sell all 50.
Perhaps the conclusion is that all models struggle with sales. I wonder what the estimated 500-700k watches sold per year consists mainly of. Is Rob right when he says cheap F1's is where the large quantity lies
 
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I disagree. The C11 Monaco McQueen is a consistent strong seller. As mentioned before, it's their #1 sales model in a fairly large country.

The Monaco SMQ is probably the exception though. Even people who don't care about SMQ seem to want that one, probably because when they visit the boutique they are told it is the 'one to buy'. I guess because the watch is unusual looking already, the crown on the left is another 'quirky' feature to appeal to someone who likes a square watch.
 
imagwai
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dtf dtf
Isn’t the strategic direction to move upmarket and away from malls and outlets?
I suspect they are trying to cover all bases to protect themselves depending on which way the luxury watch market shifts.
 
Mspeedster
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The Monaco SMQ is probably the exception though. Even people who don't care about SMQ seem to want that one, probably because when they visit the boutique they are told it is the 'one to buy'. I guess because the watch is unusual looking already, the crown on the left is another 'quirky' feature to appeal to someone who likes a square watch.
Yes TH has carefully built up the Monaco's image over the last 20 years and surely that has something to do with it.

But I still believe if something like the 60th Panda was part of TH's normal line up, they'd sell just as many of them, if not more, compared to the new reverse panda glassbox. Assuming they were priced in the same ballpark.

I also would be willing to bet they sold a heck of lot more of these Autavias than 600-1000, despite its shortcomings compared to the vintage Rindt.
 
Mspeedster
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Jim Dollares Jim Dollares
Perhaps the conclusion is that all models struggle with sales. I wonder what the estimated 500-700k watches sold per year consists mainly of. Is Rob right when he says cheap F1's is where the large quantity lies
Where does that estimate come from? TAG Heuer doesn't release their unit sales numbers, but have said their volumes have been flat. Crediting increases in pricing as the reason for their growth.

Having unit sales in the 500-700k territory seems highly unlikely when looking at the sales unit volumes of the Top 10 in Morgan Stanley's 2023 report. (Tag Heuer ranked 13th)
2-iws-reportmorganstanley2022-1-1024x805.jpg


I consider Breitling to be similar to TAG Heuer in that they have low end quartz pieces, mid-range ETA/Sellita, and higher-end In-House. Which are priced similarly to TAG Heuer. Yet Breitling (#9) have unit sales of only 230k.
 
Jim Dollares
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Where does that estimate come from? TAG Heuer doesn't release their unit sales numbers, but have said their volumes have been flat. Crediting increases in pricing as the reason for their growth.

Having unit sales in the 500-700k territory seems highly unlikely when looking at the sales unit volumes of the Top 10 in Morgan Stanley's 2023 report. (Tag Heuer ranked 13th)
2-iws-reportmorganstanley2022-1-1024x805.jpg


I consider Breitling to be similar to TAG Heuer in that they have low end quartz pieces, mid-range ETA/Sellita, and higher-end In-House. Which are priced similarly to TAG Heuer. Yet Breitling (#9) have unit sales of only 230k.
I just got the number from google. Perhaps around 200k is more realistic, I really have no idea. Like any other modern human I just let google tell me what is true and not 🙄

I think Breitling compares perfectly with TAG Heuer. Both brands have equally retarded pricing increases too 👍
 
Mspeedster
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I just got the number from google. Perhaps around 200k is more realistic, I really have no idea. Like any other modern human I just let google tell me what is true and not 🙄
LOL. When I ask google "how many watches does TAG Heuer sell per year", the first thing that pops up is a very old WUS post from 2011. By a user (citing no credible source) saying 700k. https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/...-production-per-year-for-watch-brands.607424/

But let's say that old post is to be believed, that was a very different era for TAG. Around 2009-10, I recall them being in the Top 5 and fairly comparable to Omega. I really doubt their volumes are anything close to Omega now days. And even if they were, it would indicate that a strategy of quantity over quality is a losing battle for TAG, as their market share has been in decline.

Yeah, so probably closer to Breitling's output in 2023. It'll be interesting to see the Morgan Stanley report next year to learn if all the positive press this year has translated into a market share gain.
 
Mspeedster
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I was able to find this chart showing TAG Heuer's estimated unit sales for the 2021 sales year. They were closer to Omega than I had thought just two years ago. So I would guess they likely still have similar volumes now, ~400k, since Frederic said their unit sales have been flat.

Top+Swiss+Watch+Brands+by+Units+Sold.jpg

As some others have surmised, it's likely their high volumes are driven by the low-end & mid-range products. However, my take on this is that TAG Heuer needs to shift their strategy, as they are trying to do. Because they have been losing ground and being passed by others with lower unit sales.
 
Aquagraph
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Surely the rise of Tudor is the problem. I can imagine Tudor stealing TAG's market share more than anyone.
 
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Like when I tried on the WOS Panda last year, the guy in the shop told me it wasn't selling - people try it on but they buy the Tudor Chrono, not because they like it better, because they are buying a cheap Rolex. I don't see how TAG combat that. It's not that TAG design sucks, but Tudor is more and more seen as affordable Rolex. I don't even think making the designs more 'Tudor/Rolex-like' will help, in fact it will probably make it worse. At least TAG is seen as an alternative to Tudor at the moment. Tough to see how they fight this...
 
Mspeedster
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Surely the rise of Tudor is the problem. I can imagine Tudor stealing TAG's market share more than anyone.
Tudor and probably Breitling's resurgence as well.

Breitling has similar priced products in most categories. But their unit volume is much lower. Which means they're selling a lot more in the $5k-$10k range compared to TAG.
 
Aquagraph
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Plus their super quartz F1 style watches are not sub £2000 either.
 
kappa_md
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If I may give my 2 cents here, I feel that alot of criticisms and disappointments regarding the TAG Heuer Autavia Heritage have emerge, although some maybe valid and understandable.

As an owner of 4 Heritage Autavias, I felt I needed to give my thoughts on the watch and my experiences with them. I am not aware of the numbers regarding if it is a sales hit or not or whether it is keeping its value in the marketplace or not, but to me, it is a truly commendable and beautiful modern watch from TAG Heuer. I am not also sure how many owners of these watches are here but I’d like them to say their opinions, comments, feedback on the watch.
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1. TAG Heuer wanted to bring back the Autavia with a bang. The Autavia Cup was unprecedented, and to have an new in-house movement in a modern heritage piece was not seen entirely before. JC Biver had two propositions for the Autavia Cup, and it was never meant to be produced in the main catalog but an exercise to bring the “Autavia” name in people’s mind and recollection. So to say that it was eventually discontinued and didn’t stay in the catalog as a “failure” is probably not proper. And to see one or two of these watches in boutiques heavily discounted are not good indicators of “failure” or “success” I’m sure TAG Heuer has already reaped their ROI in this exercise.
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2. The Autavia name has alot of attachment to it. It was the true Racer’s Watch even before the Carrera even became a Racer’s Watch. Actual chronograph worn by racers. I agree that TAG Heuer may have produced too many iterations but we know TAG Heuer, they will really try to milk this to bag more profit. That’s why I just stick to the Rindt, Siffert, Viceroy & JH85 which have more meaning, history and true to the Autavia’s heritage.
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3. It is a “modern intepretation” and while not as close and faithful to those inspirations, it still is a beautiful watch. It gathered the Watchstars’ “Best Watch in the World” in the Design Stars Category and a Red Dot Award together with the Monaco (also a modern interpretation)
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All in all, my love for the Heritage Heuer wouldn’t be complete if TAG Heuer didn’t bring back the Autavia. Lessons learned from the Autavia Cup meant that the winning design might not be what the vintage and watch enthusiasts would have really wanted. What we thought is popular may not always be the case. It was the design chosen by the majority. The People’s Choice Watch.
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All in All, I love my Heritage Autavias and I’d like to take this opportunity to thank TAG Heuer for giving something to die-hard fans / enthusiasts like me to treasure.
1EB3BE64-A28A-4C36-846B-60C96DDA9B2E.jpeg
 
Mspeedster
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^Well said @kappa_md! I agree with you. 👍

There's no evidence showing that poor sales was the reason for the heritage Autavia's discontinuance. I believe it was planned, as the new Autavia line was launched in 2019, so the old line needed to make way. I suspect following Biver's resignation in 2018, Bianchi was eager to show his capability as CEO, and internal politics might have also been at play.

I'd be willing to wager that the Heuer branded Autavia sold better than the TAG Heuer Autavia three handers that followed it, or even the newer flyback chronos we currently have today.
 
paysdoufs
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I cannot really remember anymore, but with respect to the statement by @kappa_md that
the winning design might not be what the vintage and watch enthusiasts would have really wanted. (…) It was the design chosen by the majority. The People’s Choice Watch.
Wasn’t the poll held based on photos of the different vintage models, or at least renders thereof? If so, I think that would explain some of the “confusion“ between what was announced during the “Cup” and what was ultimately delivered…
 
kappa_md
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paysdoufs paysdoufs
I cannot really remember anymore, but with respect to the statement by @kappa_md that

Wasn’t the poll held based on photos of the different vintage models, or at least renders thereof? If so, I think that would explain some of the “confusion“ between what was announced during the “Cup” and what was ultimately delivered…

I’ll take this excerpt from sir @Jeff Stein ’s article about the Autavia Cup 👍 For the whole article, click here.
IMG_3481.jpeg
 
Aquagraph
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While Kappa is right that seeing an odd example in the outlets isn't a true measure of success or failure, it's a little odd that of the 8 models produced at least three have made it to the Bicester village. Especially odd was the Harrods 150pce limited edition of which they had several pieces. But again, this doesn't mean much other than they over estimated how many they could sell. The Harrods was quite a nice looking watch, and the nearest available to the Calibre 11 (clearly the best of the lot).

It would be so interesting to know the sales figures. TAG have released 75 watches this year, and okay some are limited so if you take those out then maybe the total is shared between 60 watches, plus the ones that were already released previously and remain on the website. I haven't counted lately but for argument's sake let's say there's 100, so divide 400k between 100 and you get 4000, but for sure cheaper models (F1s) are going to take a larger percentage of sales. But then the flyback Autavias probably sell about 10 a month, and the old Links don't sell period. I guess if you really put your mind to it you could could come up with an approximate figure.
 
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