2023 TAG Heuer Solargraph Titanium (WBP1180.BF0000)

Chrisred71 · Feb 23, 2023

Aquagraph
But the movements aren't fake.... they are still Sellita 2824s right?

Even then, the way the movement is set and tuned, calibrated by Tag before it's set into the watch, it does a lot about accuracy and reliability. Fakes watches also use standard grade movements, while tag only use elaborated and upward from there. A lot of variables.

Aquagraph · Feb 23, 2023

Chrisred71
Calibre 6 is ETA2895

Thanks, I thought someone told me Cal5 and Cal6 were the same. Guess I can rest easy that my Grand Carrera isn't going to suffer the same fate.

Jim Dollares · Feb 23, 2023

Yago
No I don’t believe so. Chinese fakers aint’t buying Swiss calibres

I would love some more info on this please. On WUS I see people also posting that fakes can never ever contain a genuine Swiss movement. But I question this and wonder what validation we have to base this statement on? Considering that if you go to alibaba X China express .com (something like that, huge popular China webshop) you can buy these really well made watches from brands like San Martin, priced usually around $250. What I've seen is that these brands often offer the buyer the possibility to choose movement, so if you pay say 150 more your watch comes with the SW200-1 instead of the Seiko NH35. Brands like San Martin have been around for a while now and have a very good reputation among low income watch collectors and I just wonder, when they claim they put the SW200-1 in the watch are they using a fake calibre? Maybe, but it seems like something someone would have caught and exposed at this point.

And I think it is safe to say that these factories who make watches for brands like San Martin, sometimes also do night shifts where they produce fake watches. Instead of putting that Chinese brand logo on stuff, you just go into night shift and start adding Rolex, TAG Heuer and other logos. To me it makes a lot of sense and if I was a Chinese business man I would definitely try to source genuine Sellitas (I mean, even private individuals can buy these movements for like 200 on Ebay) and put into my fakes to increase the likelihood of selling my bluff. If I can charge 1-2k for the fake Aquaracer, with a genuine SW200-1 I payed 100 dollares for, I still have a huuuuge profit margin on each watch I sell.

Who knows I know, I just think we should not be so quick and say that fakes can never have genuine movements, at least not for models that use these generic super cheap movements. In this global world of ours I imagine it would not be too difficult to source variable batches of Sellitas.

Aquagraph · Feb 23, 2023

It's not like they are actually MADE in Switzerland anyway... they may be assembled there sure, but no doubt the actual parts are made in Xinguang city. Like everything else.

Aquagraph · Feb 23, 2023

30 turns of the crown winds a 2824 fully, I'm still not risking it.

Aquagraph · Feb 23, 2023

Does anyone else feel like a dumbass for defending TAG for selling a £2500+ watch with a shitty cheap solar movement? 🤨

If only I liked boring looking watches I could buy a Tudor and be smug. 😁

Aquagraph · Feb 23, 2023

Jim Dollares
I would love some more info on this please. On WUS I see people also posting that fakes can never ever contain a genuine Swiss movement. But I question this and wonder what validation we have to base this statement on? Considering that if you go to alibaba X China express .com (something like that, huge popular China webshop) you can buy these really well made watches from brands like San Martin, priced usually around $250. What I've seen is that these brands often offer the buyer the possibility to choose movement, so if you pay say 150 more your watch comes with the SW200-1 instead of the Seiko NH35. Brands like San Martin have been around for a while now and have a very good reputation among low income watch collectors and I just wonder, when they claim they put the SW200-1 in the watch are they using a fake calibre? Maybe, but it seems like something someone would have caught and exposed at this point.

And I think it is safe to say that these factories who make watches for brands like San Martin, sometimes also do night shifts where they produce fake watches. Instead of putting that Chinese brand logo on stuff, you just go into night shift and start adding Rolex, TAG Heuer and other logos. To me it makes a lot of sense and if I was a Chinese business man I would definitely try to source genuine Sellitas (I mean, even private individuals can buy these movements for like 200 on Ebay) and put into my fakes to increase the likelihood of selling my bluff. If I can charge 1-2k for the fake Aquaracer, with a genuine SW200-1 I payed 100 dollares for, I still have a huuuuge profit margin on each watch I sell.

Who knows I know, I just think we should not be so quick and say that fakes can never have genuine movements, at least not for models that use these generic super cheap movements. In this global world of ours I imagine it would not be too difficult to source variable batches of Sellitas.

Wasn't there a video on youtube where some guy in China opened a fake watch (I can't remember the brand) and the movement was not fake?

Found it, I thought it was AP but didn't want to say as it sounds too ridiculous...

Jim Dollares · Feb 23, 2023

Aquagraph
Wasn't there a video on youtube where some guy in China opened a fake watch (I can't remember the brand) and the movement was not fake?

Found it, I thought it was AP but didn't want to say as it sounds too ridiculous...

Yeah but I mean, this guy just looks at the movement and says Oh they used a genuine 7750. But if the Chinese can perfectly replicate every other little part and detail of a Swiss watch, why would there not be factories making movements that look exactly like the genuine thing. This doesn't feel too crazy right, and there are probably a good amount of the parts in a SW200-1 that Sellita sources directly from their partners in China.

Aquagraph · Feb 23, 2023

Yeah... how does one tell a real movement from a fake movement exactly? Look at the lume pip?

Jim Dollares · Feb 23, 2023

Aquagraph
Yeah... how does one tell a real movement from a fake movement exactly? Look at the lume pip?

Bare minimum I'd imagine you would need to disassemble the movement and inspect everything thoroughly to be certain.

Aquagraph · Feb 23, 2023

Jim Dollares
Bare minimum I'd imagine you would need to disassemble the movement and inspect everything thoroughly to be certain.

And if it's made from 'genuine' parts it's going to be almost impossible to tell..

dtf · Feb 23, 2023

Chrisred71
The movement you attached looks fake to me, it's doesn't seem to have perlage or polissage. Should look like this :

I'm reasonable sure it's a genuine movement, I bought the watch from an AD and TAG serviced it at ~6months under warranty because of the normal rotor spinning issue when winding.

The sample size behind the scientific study is definitely non-representative, but its also biased to people who like TH watches and also happen to own a calibre 5, rather than the normal bias of 'people who's thing broke and want to complain about it on the Internet'.

dtf · Feb 23, 2023

Chrisred71
tag only use elaborated and upward from there.

Do you have a reference for this? I was under the impression they used the cheapest version. (See the 'plastic movement holder' thread from a few years back).

bpsmith · Feb 23, 2023

I am intrigued by what you’re looking to achieve from your posts @Chrisred71? Are you just making a statement that you think TAG Heuer are overpriced or are you trying to convince us that we should no longer buy them? I am just confused as you state yourself that you really like the Solargraph compared to Citizen, but then argue how much better Citizen are for the money.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, no question about that, so please continue to do so. A lot of people have agreed with you on some points above too.

What amuses me is that you clearly recognise your movements, but clearly don’t recognise the zero movement in people’s opinion on TAG Heuer. 😀

Most of us pretty much recognise that this hobby is a mugs game, but we still like what we like and are mostly aware that there are cheaper ways to tell the time. The £250 Citizen is cheap in relation to the Solargraph, but then also very expensive in relation to a £25 solar powered Casio. In turn, the Casio is ultra expensive compared to a Sundial or your own body clock. All rely on the Sun to tell the time.

Aquagraph · Feb 23, 2023

I think he's just annoyed cos he likes it but doesn't want to pay the asking price.... we all know that feeling

bpsmith · Feb 23, 2023

That isn’t the best of feelings, I have to agree there.

Mspeedster · Feb 23, 2023

Aquagraph
https://tagheuerforums.com/threads/...ing-scientific-study-on-the-calibre-5.135964/

Not saying the Cal 5 movement doesn't have problems, but the population sample used for Jim's study is way too small to be anything close to being statistically accurate. Yet it perpetuates a constant state of FUD about the Cal 5 on the forum. I have to say it's one of the reasons I've not bought the Aquaracer Night Diver I've had my eye on, even though I realize Jim's study isn't real science.

Chrisred71 · Feb 23, 2023

You

dtf
Honestly I'd prefer the solar movement to a calibre 5, I don't understand the romanticism that many users of this forum have attached to a $40 entry level, mass produced movement, just because it's automatic.

Theres a much bigger chance of the solar movement still working in six months time than a calibre 5.

You don't understand romanticism, you feel it or you don't. It's not something to acknowledge.

Jim Dollares · Feb 23, 2023

I hope everyone reading that thing has the brain cells to acknowledge and understand that the H.W.R.M.E is not real and that the usage of phrases like "mega superb scientists" clearly show that there is plenty of sarcasm in the thread. But in case anyone is an idiot, yes that "study" is not scientifically proven 🙄 just a bloody survey among forum members to see how many have had shitty calibro cincos...

Jim Dollares · Feb 23, 2023

Chrisred71
You don't understand romanticism, you feel it or you don't. It's not something to acknowledge.

Are you not arguing with yourself now 😁 the whole point is that purchasing a 100 dollar quartz watch for 3k is entirely based on feelings. You're the one who showed up arguing about value for money and specs 👎

2023 TAG Heuer Solargraph Titanium (WBP1180.BF0000)

Chrisred71

Aquagraph

Jim Dollares

Aquagraph

Aquagraph

Aquagraph

Aquagraph

Jim Dollares

Aquagraph

Jim Dollares

Aquagraph

dtf

dtf

bpsmith

Aquagraph

bpsmith

Mspeedster

Chrisred71

Jim Dollares

Jim Dollares

Similar threads

2024 TAG Heuer Aquaracer Professional 200 Solargraph -- green

2023 Aquaracer 'Solargraph' Blue Dial WBP1113.BA0000

2023 TAG Heuer Solargraph Steel (WBP1114)

2023 TAG Heuer Monaco Night Driver (CBL2181)

2023 TAG Heuer Formula 1 - Indy 500 Edition (CAZ101AU.BA0842)

2023 TAG Heuer Carrera Sport (Green Chronograph) - (CBN2A1N.BA0643 & CBN2A1N.FT6238)