2023 TAG Heuer Solargraph Titanium (WBP1180.BF0000)

[bpsmith]

I am not sure where you are coming from @Chrisred71 ?

You make good points above but still hark back to wanting the Solargraph. My original response still stands as, like others point out too, it’s more than the sum of its parts

On the pricing compared to the Calibre 5 AR 200, none of those have a full Titanium case and bracelet and none of them have a DLC coating with Carbon bezel intermixed with Luminova. That’s why they are pricing it differently.

Edited: Feb 23, 2023

 

[dtf]

Honestly I'd prefer the solar movement to a calibre 5, I don't understand the romanticism that many users of this forum have attached to a $40 entry level, mass produced movement, just because it's automatic.

Theres a much bigger chance of the solar movement still working in six months time than a calibre 5.

 

[Jim Dollares]

Spot on @dtf

Saying that a price is more resonable when the greedy Swiss charge 3k for a $40 Sellita just because the Sellita is mechanical is just ridiculous.

As with all affordable luxury, most of the price tag is made up of fluff i.e brand and design. We don't want no citizen on the wrist, people might think we are poor. We want that prestigeious TAG Heuer badge, showing that we give zero fucks and we are glad to pay 3k for a watch that cost the manufacturer 100 bucks to produce. When people get into the hobby they might fall for the marketing of hand made romantic fairytales from Switzerland but eventually we learn that these things are mass produced by robots in factories. Others are sold on the whole marketing scam of "heritage" but in the end nothing is about the parts in the product, it is emotional irrational entry level luxury for people like me who enjoy nicely built products but can't afford actual luxury.

 

[Aquagraph]

Yeah, I never understand the automatic prices are justifiable when the difference in percentage is high but the actual dollares is not that much different. I wonder how much TAG would charge for a quartz Carrera? Maybe we will find out, I believe the solargraph movement is intended to spread out beyond the Aquaracer sooner or later.

And doesn't it make perfect sense to make a 'limited edition' (not actually limited) version of something and sell it at an inflated price before you roll it out. Maybe they learned the lesson from the Isograph after all.... remember when they released the £26k Nanograph and then the Isograph Autavia two weeks later

 

[Aquagraph]

And like DTF I would have more faith in a Solar powered quartz than a Calibre 5 that I'm gonna be stressed out by every time I have to pull out the crown...

 

[Chrisred71]

bpsmith

I am not sure where you are coming from @Chrisred71 ?

You make good points above but still hark back to wanting the Solargraph. My original response still stands as, like others point out too, it’s more than the sum of its parts

On the pricing compared to the Calibre 5 AR 200, none of those have a full Titanium case and bracelet and none of them have a DLC coating with Carbon bezel intermixed with Luminova. That’s why they are pricing it differently.

The Titanium build has nothing extraordinary. Citizen once again will sell you a fully titanium watch with Ti bracelet, complete with an automatic antimagnetic 28800vph movement. 600 bucks.

I agree however that the carbon bezel with integrated luminova is worth a premium, combined with the DLC coating, far superior than your average black PVD.
But not that premium.

 

[Chrisred71]

dtf

Honestly I'd prefer the solar movement to a calibre 5, I don't understand the romanticism that many users of this forum have attached to a $40 entry level, mass produced movement, just because it's automatic.

Theres a much bigger chance of the solar movement still working in six months time than a calibre 5.

Aquagraph

And like DTF I would have more faith in a Solar powered quartz than a Calibre 5 that I'm gonna be stressed out by every time I have to pull out the crown...

Do you guys even know what Calibre 5 is ? I suspect you do not, because you are obviously questioning its reliability. It's based on the ETA2824, or Sellita SW200 since the Swatch group swallowed ETA.

It's one of the most reliable, robust and easy to service automatic movements in existence. It will certainly outlast any Eco-Drive watches, since they tend to die after 10 years, and the Eco-Drive tech isn't designed to be serviced but disposed. Unlike the 2824/SW200 that'll last for decades.

You can pull the crown at any time without fear, they'd be pretty rubbish watches if you couldn't.

 

[Aquagraph]

And yet, the number of people who have had issues (including me) with their Calibre 5 watches says otherwise.

 

[Aquagraph]

The ETA 2824 is known to have a problem with the rotor, my wife's Oris had the same issue... where the crown tries to wind the rotor. Cost £200 to fix her watch, thankfully my Aquaracer was under warranty

 

[Aquagraph]

Look, I get what you are saying about the price, but the components are negligible in the overall 'value' of a Swiss watch. You think a Rolex Daytona is worth £12,000 or whatever it costs? Of course it isn't, you are paying for the advertising and the prestige. It's been this way since AP decided to charge a fortune for the steel Royal Oak in the 1970s. It's the approach that Richard Mille took too and it paid off big time. RM wasn't even a success until he tripled his prices or something, suddenly it was seen as desirable and the rest is history.

 

[imagwai]

I agree that Rolex charge far more for their watches than what they cost to make, and a lot of that cost is to do with the desirability of the brand. But they wouldn't get away with it if the product wasn't superior to brands charging less. I think we might all be able to agree that TAG have probably raised their prices now to a level that isn't quite commensurate with what you're getting. Compared to the competition I mean, and I'm including brand value in the equation.

 

[Aquagraph]

I agree that logically the Solargraph should sit above the quartz pieces and below the automatics... but actually I can see why it might be very attractive to some customers. You pay a premium for it, but it has a 15 year service interval, no need to change the battery every 2-3 years at £80 a go, no servicing every 5-7 years at £350 a go... that very much appealed to me, I nearly bought one, but it looked too small on me at 40mm in black. Plus you get the first solar powered TAG Heuer watch ever...

 

[Chrisred71]

Aquagraph

And yet, the number of people who have had issues (including me) with their Calibre 5 watches says otherwise.

Aquagraph

The ETA 2824 is known to have a problem with the rotor, my wife's Oris had the same issue... where the crown tries to wind the rotor. Cost £200 to fix her watch, thankfully my Aquaracer was under warranty

My first decent watch was a F1 Calibre 5 WAZ2011. It's been through hell and back. I don't think the ETA2824 would've earned its workhorse reputation by having fatal flaws that requires 200 bucks services.

Some people had issues with their Calibre 5 and they went to the internet to share, complain, and eventually find advice and answers.

The thing is, when everything's fine, you don't go to the internet. You don't share. You just enjoy and that's it. The thousands of happy Calibre 5 customers won't post a thread here or on reddit to celebrate reliability or accuracy, because it's to be expected as standard.

The deceived Calibre 5 customers however, they will. As they should. And while it would be easy to think that's all there is to know about Calibre 5, it's not.

 

[Aquagraph]

imagwai

I agree that Rolex charge far more for their watches than what they cost to make, and a lot of that cost is to do with the desirability of the brand. But they wouldn't get away with it if the product wasn't superior to brands charging less. I think we might all be able to agree that TAG have probably raised their prices now to a level that isn't quite commensurate with what you're getting. Compared to the competition I mean, and I'm including brand value in the equation.

Is a Supreme T-shirt 'superior' to a supermarket shirt that costs 1/100th of the price? Are Rolex watches really superior to brands charging less? Are they superior to Omega for example? I have no idea, but it seems like Omega quality is pretty damned good...

I totally agree that TAG watches aren't made to a standard you'd expect for the price, countless times people say you can get a Hamilton that's just as good for £5-700. But a TAG customer doesn't want a Hamilton, just as a Supreme t shirt customer doesn't want a supermarket shirt.

 

[Yago]

Also loads of calibre 5 complaints originate from oblivious owners of fake watches.

 

[Aquagraph]

https://tagheuerforums.com/threads/...ing-scientific-study-on-the-calibre-5.135964/

 

[Aquagraph]

Yago

Also loads of calibre 5 complaints originate from oblivious owners of fake watches.

But the movements aren't fake.... they are still Sellita 2824s right?

 

[Aquagraph]

Chrisred71

My first decent watch was a F1 Calibre 5 WAZ2011. It's been through hell and back. I don't think the ETA2824 would've earned its workhorse reputation by having fatal flaws that requires 200 bucks services.

Some people had issues with their Calibre 5 and they went to the internet to share, complain, and eventually find advice and answers.

The thing is, when everything's fine, you don't go to the internet. You don't share. You just enjoy and that's it. The thousands of happy Calibre 5 customers won't post a thread here or on reddit to celebrate reliability or accuracy, because it's to be expected as standard.

The deceived Calibre 5 customers however, they will. As they should. And while it would be easy to think that's all there is to know about Calibre 5, it's not.

https://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread....ppens-when-the-reversers-stick-on-an-ETA-2824

 

[imagwai]

Aquagraph

Is a Supreme T-shirt 'superior' to a supermarket shirt that costs 1/100th of the price? Are Rolex watches really superior to brands charging less? Are they superior to Omega for example? I have no idea, but it seems like Omega quality is pretty damned good...

I totally agree that TAG watches aren't made to a standard you'd expect for the price, countless times people say you can get a Hamilton that's just as good for £5-700. But a TAG customer doesn't want a Hamilton, just as a Supreme t shirt customer doesn't want a supermarket shirt.

I'd say Omega is pretty much on a par with Rolex. And arguably, yes, they deliver slightly better value. But as mentioned, you have to add brand into the equation. They are not so different on price. Rolex and Omega are definitely a level above TAG when it comes to finishing, however. And arguably Tudor is as well.

I don't know about t-shirts, but I do know that generally speaking, cheaper, non-branded t-shirts are thinner and poorer quality material (and potentially made in a sweatshop).

 

[dtf]

Chrisred71

Do you guys even know what Calibre 5 is ? I suspect you do not, because you are obviously questioning its reliability. It's based on the ETA2824, or Sellita SW200 since the Swatch group swallowed ETA.

Yup, a $40 POS SW200, one of these:


This is the one that TH replaced in my 6month old AR. The issue with your argument is that people here have come to talk about TH watches they love, the dialog of 'wow everyone's calibre 5 has broken' only came about because our beloved Dr Jim decided to do a scientific survey. Turns out a lot of members here who own lots of other Tags also own calibre 5s and the majority of them have had issues. Maybe the ETAs were more reliable but the SW200 is the automatic watch equivalent of a 1970s lada and it astonishes me how members here decry quartz because of the romantic purity of a shitty mass produced movement.