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2017 TAG Heuer Monaco Quartz (WAW131.FC6177)
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Aquagraph
·Yes, I do say it looks disgusting, but again, I don't bitch and moan when a watch company I already like and patronize introduces a model that's not meant to appeal to me, even if it doesn't "fit in" with my view of what the company should be. I already have mine; let them have theirs.
No argument there. The thing is you are sitting on the 'right' side of the fence aren't you... in other words most of the people here agree with you rather than me, that Heuer > TAG Heuer. How many times do I read 'and of course it has Heuer on the dial (so it's better)'. I take exception to that because I like TAG so I poke fun, not nastily and not entirely seriously, but I do poke fun whenever possible because I feel like I'm the only one on my side of the fence.
It is when you design a slab-sided monstrosity that sits on top of your wrist instead of around it. Good design makes a huge difference, especially when similar dimensions are used. And in person it far more resembles a Hublot (if perhaps a smaller one) than it does an Autavia.
Having seen one (though not tried it on) I can't honestly say it looks like a Hublot. It does look a bit thick though and the bezel is horrible.
Dude - TAG already makes a ton of watches for those who want to wear cargo shorts and Crocs, and then $15,000 versions of them for those who graduate to bedazzled jeans and $800 sneakers. All I'm asking for is that when they say they're going to introduce versions of their classic designs, that they maybe should design them to appeal to the people who they are already losing to other brands.
Fair enough... I think maybe you're right here, because to these eyes they've made something neither of us likes. At least Omega made the Railmaster etc to appeal to the people who might want it, and not me who was never going to want it. And yet, people are raving about the Autavia... who are these people?
lol most certainly not. Good one though
So there's no connection between the release of the Autavia and the upsurge in interest in old Heuers. Really?
Well, that's a modern watch design for you.... which you say you want. What was that about cake and eating it again?
Okay. Ressence is a modern design too. I can't afford that either. Okay I'll be more specific, I want a modern take on established design principles - I a dial and possibly chronographs, but I don't want it to look like I inherited it when my Grandpa died.
I should have known better. Wonder if they were available on rubber straps.
No and they looked dreadful on leather straps anyway.
So live and let live, or what?
I think you take me far too seriously. I don't really have a problem with any of TAG's output, except the Autavia. Although the new version looks a lot better.
You're constantly arguing that all TAGs should be futuristic and modern, and you throw a fit anytime TAG introduces a model with the classic Heuer shield on the dial rather than their modern logo.
Mmm, except I quite like the Monza 40th Anniversary and I nearly bought a Monaco not that long ago. If I carp about anything with a Heuer logo it's usually because it's perceived as being 'better' for not having the TAG name on it - I think I covered that earlier
Again, how many models of the Heuer-01 are there? Two separate lines, tons of variations all no smaller than 43mm, rubber straps galore. Why would it be such a problem if there was one - just one - 39mm Autavia model?
Not at all, and honestly 70% of the Heuer01's aren't that nice...I know, I'm a mystery wrapped up in a enigma.
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Jim Dollares
·And here's a Carrera for you, from when Heuer was at the forefront of design!
::spooky voice:: It's 36mm!
"from when Heuer was at the forefront of design"
Wow you really sound like an old 45 year old man close to retirement 😁
Im not sure how to interpret "forefront" but Im just thinking that the design you refer to was forefront like 40 years ago, heuer01 is "forefront" today? I dont care about your discussion overall its just fun to see how old people get stuck in the past 😁
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abrod520
·No argument there. The thing is you are sitting on the 'right' side of the fence aren't you... in other words most of the people here agree with you rather than me, that Heuer > TAG Heuer. How many times do I read 'and of course it has Heuer on the dial (so it's better)'. I take exception to that because I like TAG so I poke fun, not nastily and not entirely seriously, but I do poke fun whenever possible because I feel like I'm the only one on my side of the fence.
I don't think that's true, man. Elsewhere maybe, but seems like everyone's tastes here are more in line with yours than mine. You and I are polar opposites, and most others may be in the middle, but I think they're more into the modern TAGs here than strictly vintage-style. Of course, I consider, say, an 1887 Carrera to be modern, but hey.
And it's not the TAG logo on the dial that's the issue! Though I do think it's nice to see the Heuer shield used here and there, it's not what really sets the watches that wear it apart from the others. Besides, nobody ever got mad that Tudor used its heritage rose logo on the first run of Black Bays; instead, they're beginning to appreciate already now that they've switch to their modern logo (and in-house, thicker movement)
So there's no connection between the release of the Autavia and the upsurge in interest in old Heuers. Really?
There is a connection, but it's the surging interest in old Heuers that Biver took notice of - not the other way around. Heuers, particularly 1960s screw-back Autavias and column-wheel Carreras, began to climb extremely steeply in value towards the end of 2014 or so. Before that, they'd been rising steadily since about 2010.
Okay. Ressence is a modern design too. I can't afford that either. Okay I'll be more specific, I want a modern take on established design principles - I a dial and possibly chronographs, but I don't want it to look like I inherited it when my Grandpa died.
I'm not into Ressence, but OK. I don't mean this derisively, but I see a lot more of that type of design in the $150-300 range in fashion watches more than in the intermediate levels ($5000-10000) of established watch brands. They're not powered by innovative mechanical movements like the Ressence of course, but it could be worth looking into. Seriously.
Other than that, again, there's a ton of Heuer-01s to check out, and Zenith does a bunch of things like that at a slightly higher price point (though they also depreciate a lot used, so a secondhand Zenith could be worth a look)
I don't really have a problem with any of TAG's output, except the Autavia.
Why though? Nobody's making you buy it, and it's not like they're cutting Heuer-01 or Connected production to produce it?
Mmm, except I quite like the Monza 40th Anniversary and I nearly bought a Monaco not that long ago. If I carp about anything with a Heuer logo it's usually because it's perceived as being 'better' for not having the TAG name on it - I think I covered that earlier
I haven't seen the Monza in person, and while I like what they did with it I don't think I'd be too into the case dimensions either. And you can get yourself any number of Monacos with the TAG logo on them secondhand - in fact, you can have two of those for the same price you'd pay for a new Monaco. And, as a bonus, those will be powered by ETA 2892 movements rather than the new cheap Sellitas that TAG brands the "Calibre 11".
Not at all, and honestly 70% of the Heuer01's aren't that nice...I know, I'm a mystery wrapped up in a enigma.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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abrod520
·Wow you really sound like an old 45 year old man close to retirement 😁
Im not sure how to interpret "forefront" but Im just thinking that the design you refer to was forefront like 40 years ago, heuer01 is "forefront" today? I dont care about your discussion overall its just fun to see how old people get stuck in the past 😁
LMAO 45 years old is old to you? (And where do you live where 45-year olds are close to retirement - Greece? France? 😁 )
I actually have quite a while to go before I reach that age - and far, far longer until retirement 🙁
Well the Carrera is more of a timeless design, and spawned many, many imitators in its day - which usually signifies that the design is at the forefront of what people considered stylish.
The Heuer-01 is very contemporary - it'll look dated in a year or two - and nobody's imitating that design
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Aquagraph
·LMAO 45 years old is old to you? (And where do you live where 45-year olds are close to retirement - Greece? France? 😁 )
I actually have quite a while to go before I reach that age - and far, far longer until retirement 🙁
Well the Carrera is more of a timeless design, and spawned many, many imitators in its day - which usually signifies that the design is at the forefront of what people considered stylish.
The Heuer-01 is very contemporary - it'll look dated in a year or two - and nobody's imitating that design
Or maybe it will prove to be 'timeless', that's the thing with contemporary design - you have to wait and see. Okay probably not, but I don't think it will look 'dated'. Links look dated to me... I'd rather have an S/EL. At least they are bold. Links are like a middle of the road, safe S/EL. If you're going to go with that design go for it, don't half-ass it.
Interestingly, I am 48 on Monday. I'm hoping for a nice brown leather strap and some slippers. 👍
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Aquagraph
·I don't think that's true, man. Elsewhere maybe, but seems like everyone's tastes here are more in line with yours than mine. You and I are polar opposites, and most others may be in the middle, but I think they're more into the modern TAGs here than strictly vintage-style. Of course, I consider, say, an 1887 Carrera to be modern, but hey.
🤔 You think the forum is more on my side of the fence? Surely sir you jest? Fair enough they probably are more middle ground, but I would say middle ground with a greater tendency towards the 'Heuer' editions and vintage pieces for sure.
And it's not the TAG logo on the dial that's the issue! Though I do think it's nice to see the Heuer shield used here and there, it's not what really sets the watches that wear it apart from the others. Besides, nobody ever got mad that Tudor used its heritage rose logo on the first run of Black Bays; instead, they're beginning to appreciate already now that they've switch to their modern logo (and in-house, thicker movement)
I don't think you can compare the two, a different insignia is one thing... but the name. I've said it before and JCB has said it as well, but changing the name was a big mistake. It makes it far too easy for the 'vintage' crowd to distinguish and apportion perceptions of quality to watches which are basically from the same company.
Personally I think TAG should have made all reissued watches 'Heuer' right from the start, it would have better distinguished what they were trying to do, and would have nipped all this 'oh that Monaco doesn't have the right badge on it' stuff. That way the Heuer fans could have enjoyed their watches, and the TAG fans could have enjoyed their watches without them having to argue about it all.
But then the idea of having a watch company that is Avant Garde/Modern and also Retro is a bit nuts anyway...
There is a connection, but it's the surging interest in old Heuers that Biver took notice of - not the other way around. Heuers, particularly 1960s screw-back Autavias and column-wheel Carreras, began to climb extremely steeply in value towards the end of 2014 or so. Before that, they'd been rising steadily since about 2010.
Fair enough, I obviously don't know that much about it, although I would wager that while JCB may have noticed and green lighted the Autavia on the back of the rise in interest, it cannot but have helped fueled the values when people like Hodinkee are peeing their pants over it.
I'm not into Ressence, but OK. I don't mean this derisively, but I see a lot more of that type of design in the $150-300 range in fashion watches more than in the intermediate levels ($5000-10000) of established watch brands. They're not powered by innovative mechanical movements like the Ressence of course, but it could be worth looking into. Seriously.
To be honest, when I saw the Ressence models I was like 'Oh that's kinda interesting and funky', but when I found out they were Hublot money I was severely shocked. I thought they would be £3-4,000. I mean, on reflection I can see they are very specialised but to me they don't look like they cost what they cost if you know what I mean.
Other than that, again, there's a ton of Heuer-01s to check out, and Zenith does a bunch of things like that at a slightly higher price point (though they also depreciate a lot used, so a secondhand Zenith could be worth a look)
I would definitely consider a Zenith at the right price... I despise the non skeleton Heuer 01's, they look ugly as hell. The drive timers with the numerals are nice though....
Why though? Nobody's making you buy it, and it's not like they're cutting Heuer-01 or Connected production to produce it?
Okay, I don't 'have a problem' with it, I just meant, I don't really like it. As for the Connected, they can burn the factory down for all I care about that thing!
I haven't seen the Monza in person, and while I like what they did with it I don't think I'd be too into the case dimensions either. And you can get yourself any number of Monacos with the TAG logo on them secondhand - in fact, you can have two of those for the same price you'd pay for a new Monaco. And, as a bonus, those will be powered by ETA 2892 movements rather than the new cheap Sellitas that TAG brands the "Calibre 11".
That's true, or three if we're talking about the CAW211A. I cannot for the life of me work out how that is worth £8500 on the used market.
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OttoWilliam
·Like I said above, it's a good thing that people like me get pissed off at TAG for screwing up things like the Autavia reissue - because we still care. When Hublot introduces their latest 50mm Big Bang "Extra 3 Inches' Compensation" Limited Edition, nobody notices because nobody cares 😀
If that the case, which one would you rather have, another ETA based smaller case or In-House larger case ?
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OttoWilliam
·Or maybe it will prove to be 'timeless', that's the thing with contemporary design - you have to wait and see. Okay probably not, but I don't think it will look 'dated'. Links look dated to me... I'd rather have an S/EL. At least they are bold. Links are like a middle of the road, safe S/EL. If you're going to go with that design go for it, don't half-ass it.
Interestingly, I am 48 on Monday. I'm hoping for a nice brown leather strap and some slippers. 👍
...wait is not monday yet ?
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imagwai
·which one would you rather have, another ETA based smaller case or In-House larger case ?
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Aquagraph
·Thanks Otto. Can't wait til I turn 50 and want to sell all my boyracer watches!
😜
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Pitfitter446
·I'm of for a large glass of the above after reading and digesting(some) of the above, well done guys for an interesting thread without any insults, a rarity on any forum today.
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Gambba
·I also wish the re edition autavia was smaller than what it actually produced but isn't the size was because the movement H02 wont fit in smaller case ? (I could be very wrong in here though. Pardon in advance if i am wrong)
If that the case, which one would you rather have, another ETA based smaller case or In-House larger case ?
Let's be clear the domed glass adds 1.5mm to the Autavia's height and I would not miss that. The bezel does not need to be as thick as it is, although on the MH bezel on the JH85 slims it down well. Take out the date and could we lose another 1-1.5mm?
So I believe it's not the movement that causes the majority of issues with the overall size of the new Autavia, but a multitude of other design choices.
It is a massive shame in my eyes as I would have loved to have a modern everyday Tag Heuer with Heuer branding to link in with my vintage Heuer collection. TH have some very appealing watches and some very unappealing watches, but do believe they are getting back on track.
I like several Omega models, especially the trilogy and think they have done a great job on them, but think my next purchase is likely to be a new Submariner as a more daily watch alongside my less vintage Omega Aquaterra.
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Jim Dollares
·I wish TH would step up their quartz game and release a thermo compensated HAQ like Grand Seiko, Breitling, Longines and others are doing. Just looking at the B60 from Breitling or 9F from Grand Seiko makes quartz much more interesting from a horological perspective.
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abrod520
·If that the case, which one would you rather have, another ETA based smaller case or In-House larger case ?
Probably the smaller ETA movement. The only unfortunate thing is that it'd probably have been a 7750 like the old Carrera "Calibre 16" and I really can't abide by 12-9-6 subdial placement + date.
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abrod520
·That's actually pretty nice looking. It's not something I would wear but neither is it hideous like the Skipper.
That's the thing about these subdued designs, they just work.
Funny, I think the Skipper's looks are the only thing it has going for it! (Unless you just love the listless winding sensation a cheap Sellita base ebauche provides-!)
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abrod520
·Or maybe it will prove to be 'timeless', that's the thing with contemporary design - you have to wait and see. Okay probably not, but I don't think it will look 'dated'. Links look dated to me... I'd rather have an S/EL. At least they are bold. Links are like a middle of the road, safe S/EL. If you're going to go with that design go for it, don't half-ass it.
Interestingly, I am 48 on Monday. I'm hoping for a nice brown leather strap and some slippers. 👍
Links do indeed look dated, but S/ELs just give me the heebie jeebies.
Happy birthday! 👍 I suppose according to that other guy for whom 45 means retirement, we should be making arrangements for your funeral 😉
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abrod520
·🤔 You think the forum is more on my side of the fence? Surely sir you jest? Fair enough they probably are more middle ground, but I would say middle ground with a greater tendency towards the 'Heuer' editions and vintage pieces for sure.
For argument's sake, let's say I'm on the right and you're on the left - I'd say much of the forum would be left of center.
I don't think you can compare the two, a different insignia is one thing... but the name. I've said it before and JCB has said it as well, but changing the name was a big mistake. It makes it far too easy for the 'vintage' crowd to distinguish and apportion perceptions of quality to watches which are basically from the same company.
Personally I think TAG should have made all reissued watches 'Heuer' right from the start, it would have better distinguished what they were trying to do, and would have nipped all this 'oh that Monaco doesn't have the right badge on it' stuff. That way the Heuer fans could have enjoyed their watches, and the TAG fans could have enjoyed their watches without them having to argue about it all.
But then the idea of having a watch company that is Avant Garde/Modern and also Retro is a bit nuts anyway...
I agree about the name, but those first reeditions came out in the late '90s anyway, right? (The Monaco - I know the Autavia was 2003 or so) Everybody was looking forward in the '90s. Retrofuturism was the zeitgeist - the New Beetle being the biggest signifier - and putting the TAG name on the Monaco was what anyone would have done at the time. Definitely was a mistake to brand the company TAG Heuer though - especially since nobody really knew who TAG were.
If you ask me, I think 'TAG' and 'Heuer' should be separate lines, either two different entities under LVMH or have Heuer just be a whole sub-brand of TAG. That way people who want to move upmarket can stay in the same corporate umbrella without having to jump all the way up to Zenith.
I would wager that while JCB may have noticed and green lighted the Autavia on the back of the rise in interest, it cannot but have helped fueled the values when people like Hodinkee are peeing their pants over it.
I don't think so really, since those values were definitely skyrocketing (and still are) because of collectors who already know what they are and what they mean. Most of the people whose introduction to the Autavia came from the Heuer-02 are probably not in the market for vintage watches at all, much less the niche that is Heuer.
However, if they had really gone all out and kept their designers restrained, and introduced an Autavia that appealed to that vintage crowd, they would have sold pretty damn well. Even if it meant a higher price point, I think.
To be honest, when I saw the Ressence models I was like 'Oh that's kinda interesting and funky', but when I found out they were Hublot money I was severely shocked. I thought they would be £3-4,000. I mean, on reflection I can see they are very specialised but to me they don't look like they cost what they cost if you know what I mean.
Yeah, I find Ressence to look a bit cheap. I understand what they've done on the engineering side, and it's very impressive, and certainly worth the money they ask for them if you're an enthusiast of the absolute avant-garde in watchmaking, but ultimately I prefer a legible watch that can be read at the quickest glance, so experimental layouts aren't for me. MB&F also come to mind in this instance. If you've not heard of them, make sure you're sitting down before reading how much those cost!
I would definitely consider a Zenith at the right price... I despise the non skeleton Heuer 01's, they look ugly as hell. The drive timers with the numerals are nice though....
Try Zenith on grey-market sites or the secondary market, many of them depreciate quite a bit from new as well.
I can't stand the Heuer-01s at all - see my comments earlier in the thread about 12-9-6 chronograph layouts - but I've kicked around the idea of picking up a used Drive Timer, the black-case one. It's not bad, though maybe a bit too big for me as a 43mm 3-hander - bit too much real estate on the dial. Could be a fun beater though
That's true, or three if we're talking about the CAW211A. I cannot for the life of me work out how that is worth £8500 on the used market.
I'm guessing they're trading lower than that, dealers can ask what they want but it looks like they sell more often at the US$ 6,000 or so mark - which I think is probably below retail for it. I wouldn't pay that much for a cheap ebauche slapped onto a DD chrono module though; they don't run very well. Not so bad for the ~$2500 Monacos can be had for secondary, but a real disappointment at the $6500 retail price.
Besides, £8500 can buy you a lot more watch. It's also starting to sniff at the bottom end of the 1133 market and... well....
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abrod520
·Let's be clear the domed glass adds 1.5mm to the Autavia's height and I would not miss that. The bezel does not need to be as thick as it is, although on the MH bezel on the JH85 slims it down well. Take out the date and could we lose another 1-1.5mm?
So I believe it's not the movement that causes the majority of issues with the overall size of the new Autavia, but a multitude of other design choices.
It's not the domed glass that's the issue so much as it's the way it's all put together. Many watches have the crystal built around the top edge of the dial, reducing height - the Heuer-02 is instead just kind of stacked all on top of itself, and it shows - it looks like you're looking through a 3-ft thick porthole at the dial. Honestly the bezel didn't bother me at all though - and if it were better constructed, I think I'd be into it.
