I agree that both Richard Mille and Hublot are seeing success, but RM is in such rarefied price territory that it is not comparable. Even Hublot plays in a significantly pricier bracket.

You really need to pick out a direct competitor to TAG Heuer for a comparison.

 

Tag Heuer is doing something smart, even though the watch community does not agree - and by that I mean the very small segment of folks anal about watches.

What do Mr. and Mrs. Everydaynormalpeople wear?
Fashion, affordable, no remorse watches. Michael Kors, Emporio Armani, Daniel Wellington, ICE watch to name a few.

What would be the next logical upgrade?
The Monaco Quartz, among others, within the affordable watch act by Tag Heuer.

 

What I don't get is that the people who hate on TAG Heuer always seem to propose 'don't buy TAG **** buy Patek or Audemars Piguet' as if they are in the same ball park? Makes no sense!!! That's like saying 'don't buy a Vauxhall Corsa, buy a 5 Series BMW'.

Yes TAG sell bucketloads, it's almost as if the WIS people are a small irrelevant subsection of those people who buy watches or something. And yet they believe they are the people who keep the industry going! HA.

 

I actually love the comment, add a bit more and get a Submariner.
A bit more as in triple your budget..

@Mr_Orange made a valid point: ignorance

 

Sometimes those people compare TAG with Omega... which is closer but still unfair. For £12,000 TAG are giving you a tourbillon!

 

Yes, indeed.

 

I think it's because given their past and their proven technical prowess, this company could be so much more than the budget Hublot / "fashion watch + " that it currently is. They do some pretty cool things, then wrap them in ugly "look at me!!!!!" cases. It's disappointing, and the reason for the vitriol is that people still care. When Hublot releases a new monstrosity, does it get the same reaction? Hell no, because nobody gives a damn about Hublot!

https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/i...-limited-edition-carrera-skipper-for-hodinkee

No comments section on that article, but go ahead and see how much they're going for on the secondary market. It's been very well received.
(Sure it's limited and as such demand outstrips supply, but what was the last TAG Heuer you saw appreciate post-sale rather than depreciate like a mid-2000s Mercedes AMG?)

Price point. People graduate from fashion watches to fashion watches with a TAG Heuer logo. TAG is the "my first nice watch" brand. It was mine... betting it was yours too? And probably most watch nerds. It's a good position to hold.

Rolex more likely, but sure.

You would lose that bet. In fact, many of these people probably have a much better sense of the company's heritage than nearly all of its current customers.

I, however would wager that the overwhelming majority of these bandwagon lovers of models like the Heuer-01 and quartz anything have no idea of the history of the company, its achievements or its current technical expertise and innovation.

They buy them because they look cool. TAG Heuers for the most part are fashion watch + , which again is totally fine and in fact strategically sound as evidenced by their sales numbers! But for their next step up from a Formula 1 or quartz, they could do much better - and simply don't.

Rolex in many ways is a victim of its own success! They've been so successful at marketing themselves as 'THE' watch to have, that indeed many buyers of brand-new Rolexes are essentially TAG Heuer's customer base, but a bit more successful a few years down the line. I'm less passionate about Rolex as their history doesn't interest me nearly as much as Heuer's, but I could go on for a couple hours about how their current strategy sucks.

1) Apple watch
2) Rolex
3) TAG

Going by only actual watch companies, Omega is next.

I've never seen this, but if I did I doubt I'd lend any credence to a single statement that person ever made thereafter. That's just silly

These companies (https://www.amazon.com/slp/tourbillon-watches/r5mvtfupoto49jd) are giving you a tourbillon for US $30. No, I didn't forget to add any zeros. So what's your point?

Omega occupies a slightly higher price bracket than TAG, so it's still not quite apples to apples. How about Tudor or Breitling? The former make fantastic watches at awesome price points, and the latter makes mostly monstrosities, many of which are quartz, at low price points. Put the two together and BAM! TAG.

Speaking of which, they are beginning to collaborate! Tudor's Black Bay Chronograph features a Breitling movement.
https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/tudor-black-bay-chronograph-review

~42mm case (this one's 41.5, but what's half a millimeter?), retro-modern looks, column-wheel movement, $5000 price point.... sound familiar?

 

In many ways TAGs current predicament is rather similar to Formula One itself. Both want to be perceived as being 'cutting edge' and yet a significant number of their devotees want them to revisit the past. For Formula One people want flat 12 Ferraris or naturally aspirated V8s, for TAG they want re-issues of watches from 50 years ago.

It seems to me that the people who carp about TAG Heuer because they want them to be 'Heuer' don't actually want anything 'new', they just want new versions of what came before. The Autavia seems to have bucked that trend slightly, being an updated version of an old model, but when it came out there was a lot of griping about the size etc..

I'm quite happy to admit that I buy watches because they look cool - I don't even understand that as an 'insult', people generally buy supercars because they look cool too - not because they can do 200mph. People who buy Steve McQueen Monacos probably buy them because they think they look cool as well. Would you drop £8000 on a watch you didn't think looked cool? I don't understand that.

The notion that TAG should be a 'first nice watch' brand is a bit insulting as well. While it is (of course) it rather suggests that one should 'move on' when one is financially able to. The problem with that I find is this. I like the design of TAG Heuer, for me to get something 'better' that is similar is going to cost far more than I can afford. Realistically what is like TAG but 'better'... the only Omega I actually like is £11,000 and I'm not that bothered about that if I'm honest... moving to Rolex is a non-starter because there isn't one Rolex that I actually like. Rolex watches are so boring in their designs... or 'classic' if you prefer.

The universal answer always seems to be 'get a Speedmaster', but again... it's a fifty year old design. I want something that looks like it was designed this century. I quite like some of the SE Royal Oaks, which is an old design but actually looks 'modern' but again you're talking a huge jump in cash for those watches.

I'll admit I'm not terribly up on Heuer history either, but then most people only seem to be interested in the 20-30 years preceding the buyout anyway, what about the other century?

For the £3200 I paid for my Heuer 01 what could I have bought that was so much better? 'Better' perhaps, but what could I have bought that was better and would appeal to someone who likes that design? It's no good saying for that money you could get a used Rolex Datejust or Day Date, it may be considered 'better' but it has zero appeal to me.

 

I understand your point; perhaps we should have made a distinct cut between those who appreciate what the brand is all about, and are feeling disappointed with their current offering, not building on its past roots - and those who are just spreading negative vibes for the sake of criticizing.

 

No, see you're not really paying attention. People like me aren't asking for re-issues (though in a limited run that would be great). I'm just asking for more nods to their heritage - ALONGSIDE THE NEW STUFF (had to bold, underline, capitalize that because it seems each time I try to get that across, it is either unseen or conveniently ignored)
The Autavia is a problem because the trend right now is towards vintage watches, and classic style, and it basically is just an Autavia-like dial in a nasty Hublot case.

I would have loved to drop $5000 on a cool Autavia, but instead we got a budget Hublot that looks ghastly.

You know what would have fixed this? A nicely designed Autavia for those people to graduate to after outgrowing their Formula 1 or Aquaracer. Instead they have to look elsewhere for tasteful, classic design....

You may not know this, but vintage Autavias of all stripes are now trading in the five figure range. This is not because people just like to throw money around in silly ways. It's because these watches have an important history, having been the choice for some of the greatest racing drivers in history. The watches look great, sure - but they also mean something to wear. It's a statement less of pure aesthetics, and more a way to wear your interests on your wrist.

Are you a car racing nerd? Well, you can't wear your Kimi Raikkonen shirt to work, but you can wear your Autavia.
Are you a space exploration nerd? Can't wear a NASA t-shirt to a wedding, but you can wear a Speedmaster.
Etc.

Fixed that for you.

I mean,



The whole concept of mechanical watches in the 21st century

is retro.

You tell me - would you like to wear a two-tone S/EL from the 1980s? I would rather be shot out of a cannon.

It doesn't appeal to me either. I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a Datejust or Day Date (or any modern Rolex), but I have a tremendous respect for the work that goes into them (if you haven't read Hodinkee's feature from last year about the Rolex production center, you really should) and I more than understand that some have tastes that are more partial to the conservative, dressy style they embody.

And so this is the crux of my argument -

why
must
every
last
TAG
model
be
for
you
?
?
?

 

Look, I'm not saying there aren't because for sure there are. There are snobs about everything in the watch world and outside it. But all I'm saying is, why can't there be a line of TAGs that feature a slimmer, classic vintage style? Run-of-the-mill 7763C Autavias are going for around $10k right now, with values climbing for column-wheel models. There's a lot of potential money for a newer Autavia that appeals to people who are buying those.

Again, I'm going to make a point using Omega as an example; I don't care that I'm beleaguering the point because it's important: The reeditions of the Trilogy watches - which are down-to-the-millimeter reproductions of those 1957 models - are bringing in over $85 million in revenue to Omega, alone.

How much could TAG rake in if the Autavia were designed with dimensions that appealed to those buyers, with an in-house column-wheel movement at a $5000 price point?

 

Further - before anyone tries to call me an Omega fanboy, do understand that most of their lineup does not appeal to me, to put it charitably. And in some cases, like the Speedmaster Reduced - yes, it's a smaller version of the Speedmaster, which at 38mm you'd think would appeal to me more - I find them rather disgusting.

Here, just released today:



Absolutely revolting. But I don't care because a) nobody is making me buy it and b) Omega make more than enough models that appeal to people like me. I can be happy buying the models I like, and those who enjoy things like the above can be happy buying those; and we can go our separate ways.

 

Agree with this. I'm not that interested in movement, but I would certainly have bought one if Tag hadn't spoiled it with a thick case, too large diameter, date wheel, fat bezel and overly shiny bracelet. If you look back to the Autavia cup, the chosen model looks nothing like what we actually got. We were promised a reissue, and it just wasn't.

 

But at the same time you're saying everything 'modern' looking is disgusting... cake and eat it much?

If there's one thing the Autavia isn't it's a Hublot. 42mm isn't even all that big.

Here we are again, grow out of the modern watch and into 'classic' designs. No no no. I don't want to grow out of Aquaracers and into vintage style - that isn't 'the natural order of things'. Maybe if you wear shirts and suits all day, but I don't.

Umm, no I would say it's largely because a bunch of 'bandwagon jumpers' (is the phrase you used earlier) decided that Heuer is cool this year and buy one quick before the price goes through the roof and oops too late! And why is the Heuer suddenly cool? Is it because of that hideous Hublot-Autavia?

So all watches should basically be presented in pre-quartz crisis format then?

If I could find one that wasn't 34mm, I probably would.

I admire the build quality, but I don't want to wear one.

I don't remember saying they should. I actually quite like the white dial Twin Time, that to me is a good combination of classic and modern styling.

 

Cheers to TAG Heuer for making us write long comments in the forum these few days

 

Here, have a two-tone S/EL.

 

Shudder

 

Philistine.

 

Yes, I do say it looks disgusting, but again, I don't bitch and moan when a watch company I already like and patronize introduces a model that's not meant to appeal to me, even if it doesn't "fit in" with my view of what the company should be. I already have mine; let them have theirs.

It is when you design a slab-sided monstrosity that sits on top of your wrist instead of around it. Good design makes a huge difference, especially when similar dimensions are used. And in person it far more resembles a Hublot (if perhaps a smaller one) than it does an Autavia.

Dude - TAG already makes a ton of watches for those who want to wear cargo shorts and Crocs, and then $15,000 versions of them for those who graduate to bedazzled jeans and $800 sneakers. All I'm asking for is that when they say they're going to introduce versions of their classic designs, that they maybe should design them to appeal to the people who they are already losing to other brands.

That's true, part of the rise in value is attributable to those who have already bought their $150,000 Paul Newman Daytonas, or those who have been priced out, and the money had to go elsewhere. However, they're buying Autavias specifically because they realize now that there's a much stronger connection to motorsport - Paul Newman loved racing, to be sure, but he could never hold a candle to Jochen Rindt or Mario Andretti.

lol most certainly not. Good one though

Well, that's a modern watch design for you.... which you say you want. What was that about cake and eating it again?

I should have known better. Wonder if they were available on rubber straps.

So live and let live, or what?

You're constantly arguing that all TAGs should be futuristic and modern, and you throw a fit anytime TAG introduces a model with the classic Heuer shield on the dial rather than their modern logo.

Again, how many models of the Heuer-01 are there? Two separate lines, tons of variations all no smaller than 43mm, rubber straps galore. Why would it be such a problem if there was one - just one - 39mm Autavia model?

 

Like I said above, it's a good thing that people like me get pissed off at TAG for screwing up things like the Autavia reissue - because we still care. When Hublot introduces their latest 50mm Big Bang "Extra 3 Inches' Compensation" Limited Edition, nobody notices because nobody cares