We Don't Need Another Hero, We Just Need to Listen to Mr Biver (Again)

Aquagraph
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That doesn't read very well on reflection, because it could equally be that someone only likes the later stuff (as that coincided with them joining the party - so to speak). Like I could well imagine someone liking Genesis (but not the pop 'rubbish' they did in the 80s) or equally someone liking the hits but not that prog 'rubbish' they did in the 70s. Both valid, but one is a more 'elitist' standpoint and will usually be more vociferously argued. And yes in this instance the 70s prog enthusiast is definitely meant to represent the vintage Heuer fan, 😆
 
Mspeedster
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Taste can always evolve and change, as it probably should.

But what I'm trying to say is a little different. I've followed the brand closely from just about the beginning until now and although TAG has often introduced new design styles, there were only two instances (maybe 3) where it felt jarring and un-TAG like to me.

The first was the '90s Heuer reissues, because we know Heuer was a very different company from TAG Heuer. The second was the H01 Skeleton Carrera, because Biver brought it with him from Hublot.

Heuer is a part of the legacy heritage, so it was acceptable for me, even if I had no interest back then. But the skeleton just felt so foreign. It seemed like a Hublot with window dressing made up to look Carrera-ish. It's the one thing from Biver's era that I really didn't like but have become accustomed to them now.

Looking back, the '80s & '90s were my favorite periods; some of it is nostalgia yes, but I also really liked what TAG was doing. The '10s is my second favorite period, inclusive of the Biver era. The '00s, first decade under LVMH, is my least favorite. And it feels like LVMH is repeating things from that decade now, such as haute horology, very expensive pricing and TH branding on heritage pieces like the Skipper and Seafarer.
 
Mspeedster
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I should qualify that it was really1999-2008 that was my least favorite period. That's when LVMH killed the OG F1 watch, ended TAG's sponsorship of F1 racing, started branding heritage pieces with TH instead of H, and prices started to go way up relative to before.

Even so, there was a lot that I liked during that era. The heritage pieces started to appeal to me a lot, but I just couldn't buy one until they branded them as Heuer again in 2009. Also, I was enamored with the Gulf Monaco models, especially the Monaco 24 Gulf.
 
bpsmith
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I still never understand the Heuer vs TAG Heuer branding argument, when a new version is released.

If it’s a 1:1 recreation, then putting Heuer on the dial makes some sense as that is what was there before.

If it’s a new version inspired by a previous watch, then that creation didn’t exist before and should be branded TAG Heuer, albeit with perhaps a vintage style mono logo being used so that it’s in-keeping with the style.

That’s just my opinion and people are entitled to agree or disagree accordingly.

I am not entering into the elitism topic though, as I really don’t like that sort of thing.
 
Aquagraph
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
Taste can always evolve and change, as it probably should.

But what I'm trying to say is a little different. I've followed the brand closely from just about the beginning until now and although TAG has often introduced new design styles, there were only two instances (maybe 3) where it felt jarring and un-TAG like to me.

The first was the '90s Heuer reissues, because we know Heuer was a very different company from TAG Heuer. The second was the H01 Skeleton Carrera, because Biver brought it with him from Hublot.

Heuer is a part of the legacy heritage, so it was acceptable for me, even if I had no interest back then. But the skeleton just felt so foreign. It seemed like a Hublot with window dressing made up to look Carrera-ish. It's the one thing from Biver's era that I really didn't like but have become accustomed to them now.

Looking back, the '80s & '90s were my favorite periods; some of it is nostalgia yes, but I also really liked what TAG was doing. The '10s is my second favorite period, inclusive of the Biver era. The '00s, first decade under LVMH, is my least favorite. And it feels like LVMH is repeating things from that decade now, such as haute horology, very expensive pricing and TH branding on heritage pieces like the Skipper and Seafarer.
The 00s were a very mixed bag. On the one hand the 2nd gen F1s are the ugliest F1s ever made and I will never own one of those. Especially those ones that look like The Scream. But the late 00s had some great watches, like the Grand Carrera, the Microtimer, and the Golf. None of which had any Heuer heritage in them, but all really cool and while they first two were probably not all that successful the Golf was pretty successful I think, with the Tiger Woods tie in. They certainly hold their value incredibly well and a good one still costs a good £700 or so.

I wonder if you would have felt the same if Biver had introduced a skeleton dial into a regular, existing Carrera case? Like a 43mm C16 skeleton?
 
Mspeedster
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bpsmith bpsmith
If it’s a 1:1 recreation, then putting Heuer on the dial makes some sense as that is what was there before.

If it’s a new version inspired by a previous watch, then that creation didn’t exist before and should be branded TAG Heuer, albeit with perhaps a vintage style mono logo being used so that it’s in-keeping with the style.
If we're talking about today's TAG Heuer, in general I do agree. While I would've preferred to see Heuer on the Skipper and Seafarer, the TAG Heuer logo isn't a showstopper for me.

In the context of the early 2000's, it was a different situation. When the Carrera, Monaco & Monza were first reissued, they were all branded Heuer, even though the Monaco & Monza were what I'd call modern tributes. The three were all limited and not part of TAG's core line up.

Then after LVMH bought TAG Heuer in 1999, someone decided that everything should be branded TH, including these non-core heritage pieces in the early 2000s. The next round of these looked very similar to the previous versions released just a couple of years back, except now branded with TAG Heuer.

By the mid-2000s, I had started to become interested in these heritage pieces. But details like the logo were important for that kind of money, hence I simply could not pull the trigger. Then they finally got things right with the 2009 Monaco 40th Anniversary, but that sucker was $10K! Big money even for today, and that was 15 years ago. An example of how their pricing also got very expensive, relative to that era.
 
Mspeedster
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Aquagraph Aquagraph
The 00s were a very mixed bag. On the one hand the 2nd gen F1s are the ugliest F1s ever made and I will never own one of those. Especially those ones that look like The Scream. But the late 00s had some great watches, like the Grand Carrera, the Microtimer, and the Golf. None of which had any Heuer heritage in them, but all really cool and while they first two were probably not all that successful the Golf was pretty successful I think, with the Tiger Woods tie in. They certainly hold their value incredibly well and a good one still costs a good £700 or so.

I wonder if you would have felt the same if Biver had introduced a skeleton dial into a regular, existing Carrera case? Like a 43mm C16 skeleton?
The Grand Carrera, Microtimer and Golf all felt TAG like to me. I actually liked the Grand Carrera, almost bought one in 2011.

Can't really answer the question of a skeleton dial in an existing Carrera case. Perhaps so, but it depends on what it might've looked like.
 
Aquagraph
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
If we're talking about today's TAG Heuer, in general I do agree. While I would've preferred to see Heuer on the Skipper and Seafarer, the TAG Heuer logo isn't a showstopper for me.

In the context of the early 2000's, it was a different situation. When the Carrera, Monaco & Monza were first reissued, they were all branded Heuer, even though the Monaco & Monza were what I'd call modern tributes. The three were all limited and not part of TAG's core line up.

Then after LVMH bought TAG Heuer in 1999, someone decided that everything should be branded TH, including these non-core heritage pieces in the early 2000s. The next round of these looked very similar to the previous versions released just a couple of years back, except now branded with TAG Heuer.

By the mid-2000s, I had started to become interested in these heritage pieces. But details like the logo were important for that kind of money, hence I simply could not pull the trigger. Then they finally got things right with the 2009 Monaco 40th Anniversary, but that sucker was $10K! Big money even for today, and that was 15 years ago. An example of how their pricing also got very expensive, relative to that era.
As much as I despise the Heuer - good / TAG Heuer - bad brigade, I have to agree that it makes more sense to put Heuer on proper re-issue watches. Things like the current Skipper though are too 'modern' looking for that, so they should be TAG Heuers. I agree when it comes to attracting buyers the logo is important, I just wish some of those people didn't try and claim that simply putting a different logo made it a 'better' watch as if it didn't come from the same factory.
 
bpsmith
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Aquagraph Aquagraph
As much as I despise the Heuer - good / TAG Heuer - bad brigade, I have to agree that it makes more sense to put Heuer on proper re-issue watches. Things like the current Skipper though are too 'modern' looking for that, so they should be TAG Heuers. I agree when it comes to attracting buyers the logo is important, I just wish some of those people didn't try and claim that simply putting a different logo made it a 'better' watch as if it didn't come from the same factory.
Exactly. It’s the same darn watch, made by TAG Heuer at the end of the day. Some sort of posher connotations linked with Heuer being on the dial, for some at least, even when they’re buying from TAG Heuer. That element is daft to me.
 
Aquagraph
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I understand (and I don't object to) people preferring the Heuer logo, just this idea that somehow it's a different 'quality', it's just nonsense.
 
Mspeedster
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What bothered me more was when TAG Heuer tried to retcon their TH logo-ed modern Monaco onto Steve's wrist.
McQueen advert.webp
 
TheGanzman
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I suppose it's my advanced age of 68 years, but I've noticed that my "Likes" & "Dislikes" have gotten stronger over the years; things I MIGHT have accepted 20 years ago are now totally unacceptable to me. As such, the Tag-Heuer logo in ANY iteration is something I ABHOR with every fiber of my watch-loving being - Give me "Heuer" (only) or give me another brand:
MonacoMineE.webp
 
dtf
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
What bothered me more was when TAG Heuer tried to retcon their TH logo-ed modern Monaco onto Steve's wrist.
McQueen advert.webp

The markers bother me more than the logo tbh.

I’ve never really bought into logo argument, it seems pretty straightforward, use the Heuer logo for re-editions and retro inspired pieces, use the TH logo for avantgarde modern watches.
 
Albert-AMG
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dtf dtf
The markers bother me more than the logo tbh.

I’ve never really bought into logo argument, it seems pretty straightforward, use the Heuer logo for re-editions and retro inspired pieces, use the TH logo for avantgarde modern watches.
What is an aberration is to photoshop a watch with the TAG Heuer logo onto Steve McQueen's wrist 🤦🏻‍♂️
 
Mspeedster
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dtf dtf
The markers bother me more than the logo tbh.

I’ve never really bought into logo argument, it seems pretty straightforward, use the Heuer logo for re-editions and retro inspired pieces, use the TH logo for avantgarde modern watches.
But TAG often blurs the line between retro inspired and avantgarde.

I consider the glassbox's new wave inner bezel to be an avantgarde design, but the Skipper and Seafarer are certainly retro inspired too, so a combo of both IMHO. Hence, why the H v TH logo discussion never goes away.
 
Mspeedster
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TheGanzman TheGanzman
I suppose it's my advanced age of 68 years, but I've noticed that my "Likes" & "Dislikes" have gotten stronger over the years; things I MIGHT have accepted 20 years ago are now totally unacceptable to me. As such, the Tag-Heuer logo in ANY iteration is something I ABHOR with every fiber of my watch-loving being - Give me "Heuer" (only) or give me another brand:
MonacoMineE.webp
I like both logos. But I love your steadfast mindedness! 👍
 
dtf
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
But TAG often blurs the line between retro inspired and avantgarde.

I’d argue they have comprehensively failed at both for around the last 5 years
 
bpsmith
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Genuinely interested in your feeling on buying a new Heuer branded piece when the company creating and selling it is actually TAG Heuer @TheGanzman?
 
Aquagraph
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TheGanzman TheGanzman
I suppose it's my advanced age of 68 years, but I've noticed that my "Likes" & "Dislikes" have gotten stronger over the years; things I MIGHT have accepted 20 years ago are now totally unacceptable to me. As such, the Tag-Heuer logo in ANY iteration is something I ABHOR with every fiber of my watch-loving being - Give me "Heuer" (only) or give me another brand:
MonacoMineE.webp
Well then, I guess we can never be friends.... 😌
 
TheGanzman
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bpsmith bpsmith
Genuinely interested in your feeling on buying a new Heuer branded piece when the company creating and selling it is actually TAG Heuer @TheGanzman?
I dunno exactly; maybe it's just the word "TAG", as in "Tag - you're it!" Or maybe it's just as simple as liking and bonding with the uncluttered, clean, regular "Heuer" logo for all the years prior to the TAG acquisition. By analogy, it seems that every brand/logo is being made absolutely HUGE now; to wit: Have you seen the newer Polo logo on shirts? Absolutely GHASTLY! Same goes for Izod. And the Ford and Chevrolet logos on the newer vehicles - the size of hubcaps! If I choose to wear/drive a "brand", I have no particular interest in the "free advertising" that goes along with these billboard-sized logos. Hey, I always admire a woman's "curves"; that doesn't mean she needs to be sporting a pair of Triple-E's! I'll close with this example:
Big-Bigger.webp
 
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