Watches and Wonders 2023

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Tried the tourbillon today. Nice but dumb.



The glassbox design works very well in the 42mm case. It even has a funky cutout for the tourbillon:



I’m hoping to see some normal 42mm glassbox models down the line.
Why dumb?
 
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Why dumb?

Nobody wants a mass-produced tourbillon from TAG Heuer. People who go into TAG boutiques want F1s and classic Carreras and Monacos up to about the $7k price point, after that they go elsewhere.
 
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ASW ASW
When are these out anyone know?

The two-tone are already released and in boutiques. Not 100% sure on the full gold, but think they’re available very soon.
 
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Nobody wants a mass-produced tourbillon from TAG Heuer. People who go into TAG boutiques want F1s and classic Carreras and Monacos up to about the $7k price point, after that they go elsewhere.

Did the boutique have any comments on this opinion? (Not that I disagree)
 
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I can tell you that the Sheffield boutique has sold plenty of £7000+ models in recent times. They have definitely sold the gold red Porsche and the rainbow tourbillon, both of which are more than double that. But I get what Adam is saying, once you get to a certain price point some people are not looking at TAG anymore and I don't honestly expect that one to sell like hot cakes.
 
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TAG Heuer bois with big wallets probably want modern 45mm tourbillons... which is probably why they are only just now making 42mm tourbillons. As Jim said, we've been saying forever that the tourbillon should be in a smaller case and then it was released at W&W and there wasn't exactly a clatter of excitement was there?
 
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When are these out anyone know?

Website says they are boutique only..
 
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dtf dtf
Did the boutique have any comments on this opinion? (Not that I disagree)

Knowing that TAG corporate reads this thread, I don't want to put words in their mouths. But the super high-end stuff doesn't sell well according to them

As Jim said, we've been saying forever that the tourbillon should be in a smaller case and then it was released at W&W and there wasn't exactly a clatter of excitement was there?

With the tourbillon models the problem isn't the size of the case so much as the size of the credit card bill...
 
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Nobody wants a mass-produced tourbillon from TAG Heuer. People who go into TAG boutiques want F1s and classic Carreras and Monacos up to about the $7k price point, after that they go elsewhere.
I think that is Tag's current dilemma with upscaling the brand, they are starting to lose some of their core base and not growing at a pace to cover the short fall...if I got a dollar for every time i hear, " If I am spending $6000, I might as well get an omega or breitling" meanwhile Longines is gaining a foothold in entry level market

I am curious what you all think is the better approach less watches, higher prices, more exclusive which seem to be the direction most swiss brands are using or focus on dominating the entry level

Personally I think the advent of smart watches has slowed the watch sales among casuals so brands are raising prices to get as much from enthusiast to meet their bottom line
 
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The F1 is still where the big sales are at (after the Connected) and then the Carrera... but of course every Carrera = 4 F1s. The problem seems to be even if they make models that appeal to the market in the Carrera range they are just too expensive.
 
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Used to be 10 years ago that £800-1500 got you a nice quartz Tag, and £1500-3500 got you an automatic (I think a standard cal 16 Carrera was about £3k). And you could usually get a 10-15% discount from an AD.

Those prices have more or less doubled, but I haven't seen quite the same uptick on Longines, Hamilton, Rado and other entry brands. They're clearly trying to get closer to Omega and Rolex, but people would rather have an Omega or a Rolex I think, even if it means saving a tad more. Tag, therefore, need to either seriously up their game on design and quality to compete, or be a chunk less to buy.
 
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The F1 is still where the big sales are at (after the Connected) and then the Carrera... but of course every Carrera = 4 F1s. The problem seems to be even if they make models that appeal to the market in the Carrera range they are just too expensive.
It's a image issue...first luxury watch, graduation gift... this is what the brand is known for and how alot of casuals treat it... when they get to the next level, doesn't matter the model, they prefer a rolex/omega/brietling because of the prestige attach to it ( especially when Tag is now so close in pricing)
 
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The recent price increases have felt completely unjustified in my opinion, especially on the Monaco collection, and Aquaracer 300.

Anyone who does just a slight bit of research, will see this as well. When you can go buy a Tudor Black Bay for pretty much the same price as the 300, with an in-house movement and lets face it - a better case, bracelet, clasp build, etc.

With another price increase in the pipeline towards the end of the year, TAG are going to suffer big time unless there is a complete overhaul in their movements and QC. I wouldn’t be surprised if they chuck an extra grand or so on the RRP when the TH31-00 is implemented across the Aquaracer collection, when really they should remain at the £3k mark.
 
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Anyone who does just a slight bit of research, will see this as well. When you can go buy a Tudor Black Bay for pretty much the same price as the 300, with an in-house movement and lets face it - a better case, bracelet, clasp build, etc.
Valid point about the movement, the Chanel/Tudor/Kenissi clearly has better specs. Design wise though, the black bay and the 300 are very far apart. Black bay looks old fashioned, 300 looks very modern.

I don't agree about the case, bracelet and clasp. I find the 300 to be just as good in all three of those areas. The 300 also uses AR coating while as with my Black bay half the time I stare at my own face when I look at the watch. Black bay probably means 'super reflective' in latin.

This discussion is on repeat in the forum but about the prices I also believe that Tudor has far from the brand prestige among ordinary people compared to TAG Heuer. They might get there in the future but today, at least where I live, everyone basically knows that TAG is a maker of expensive watches. In the end, 95% of the price we pay is for brand and marketing and how people around us perceive what we wear. You are not willing to pay 4k for a TAG Heuer diver but I think a lot of people still are. Breitling seem to be doing just fine, charging 4k for their Sellita Avengers and those watches look and feel like a 500 dollar piece when you hold one.
 
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Valid point about the movement, the Chanel/Tudor/Kenissi clearly has better specs. Design wise though, the black bay and the 300 are very far apart. Black bay looks old fashioned, 300 looks very modern.

I don't agree about the case, bracelet and clasp. I find the 300 to be just as good in all three of those areas. The 300 also uses AR coating while as with my Black bay half the time I stare at my own face when I look at the watch. Black bay probably means 'super reflective' in latin.

This discussion is on repeat in the forum but about the prices I also believe that Tudor has far from the brand prestige among ordinary people compared to TAG Heuer. They might get there in the future but today, at least where I live, everyone basically knows that TAG is a maker of expensive watches. In the end, 95% of the price we pay is for brand and marketing and how people around us perceive what we wear. You are not willing to pay 4k for a TAG Heuer diver but I think a lot of people still are. Breitling seem to be doing just fine, charging 4k for their Sellita Avengers and those watches look and feel like a 500 dollar piece when you hold one.

It’s down to personal opinion, but for me, when you put a Black Bay side by side with a 300, the bracelet feel stronger and the clasp feels a lot more sturdy. I guess the ceramic bezel on the 300 is a plus point, but as you said, this would not look right on the Black Bays. Let’s not forget that Tudor also offer a 5 year warranty with their watches, whilst the Calibre 5 offering is a 2 year.

To me the Aquaracer 300 in it’s current state should be £2.8k max. Pushing it over £3k isn’t justified, and by all accounts they are not selling as well as when they were a previously fairer rrp.
 
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See, it's all very well comparing the BB and the Aquaracer, but they are not comparable. It doesn't matter how much better the BB might be, or how rubbish the movement might be in the AR, I want the Aquaracer because the design appeals to me. If I decide the AR is too expensive I'm still not going to buy the BB because it's way too conservative.
 
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I wasn’t really comparing them in regards to style, more at the point that you get a lot more for your money with the Black Bay (in my opinion), and that the Aquaracer 300 does not justify a £3k rrp.
 
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I wasn’t really comparing them in regards to style, more at the point that you get a lot more for your money with the Black Bay (in my opinion), and that the Aquaracer 300 does not justify a £3k rrp.
Yes it all comes down to opinion and how much we value a specific brand. All these watches cost 200-500 to mass produce, with fully automated robot finishing, machine automation to the extent possible and a few repetitive hand assembly steps that they still haven't found ways to fully automate. In my opinion, the whole value for money perspective is flawed when it comes to most Swiss watches. These watches are cheap to manufacture and we pay insane over prices for brand, prestige and design.