Tag Heuer Positioning

Aquagraph · Dec 4, 2018

THJunkie
i think the comment about the breadth of ghe brand (low to high end) is very valid. TH are somewhat unique in that way.

I think of it in terms if the VAG group (cars) which has Skoda (quality, low cost quartz) up to Bently and Lamborghini (v4 etc) in their stable. With VW, Audi etc in the middle.

The key difference is that there are sub brands. And the presentation is a bit more clear cut. TH have a bigger challenge as everything is marketed as the same brand even if they have the heuer name only on a few heritage pieces.

If we consider a Monaco Gulf as being an Audi in this analogy, we go to a showroom and see that pirce surrounded by Skodas and VWs. And we have some Monacos and Carreras branded Heuer, some Tag Heuer, but share the Polo/A4 model label. And you also have a Polo spec Monaco with same model name sitting next to a higher end model with Cal 11/12 movement.

It is confusing as hell, even for those with a passion to understand it. Nevermind the casual purchaser who just wants a nice watch.

Not sure what the answer is. Maybe splitting into Heuer and Tag Heuer for high/low end only works for reissues. But what about the new modern high end pieces?

I guess so long as they are profitable they may not care about this. But it’ll be interesting to observe how it might play out and what the results will be.

I look forward to the cries of outrage when the high end Mutant Carreras are labelled Heuers....😉

But seriously, no it is an odd thing for a brand to cover such a wide base, and then there is the added complication of TAG Heuer / Heuer into the bargain.... I think splitting the brand by name is a terrible idea as it only reinforces the erroneous idea that Heuer = good, TAG Heuer = bad. I know Mr Biver thinks the name change was a terrible idea in the first place but he said it's too late to try and change it back (plus they still haven't completely changed over the logo yet, how long would it take to change to Heuer?).

I suppose you either take the view that the high end pieces drag up the perceived value of the quartz pieces, or the lower end pieces hinder the sale of the Heuer 01s etc. I imagine TAG would take the former position... and after all, let's not forget TAG is 'entry level luxury' so it makes sense for them to cover a wider range than most, after all, you don't want to be a gateway brand where you lose your customer as soon as they get a bit of money to buy watches. Sure you could argue that's what Zenith and Hublot are for, but there's a big jump to Hublot and I don't think Zenith has even 1% of TAG's brand awareness.

OttoWilliam · Dec 4, 2018

About the Tag Heuer - Heuer issue, some brands deliberately did similar thing about the brand though. Although not identically similar situation etc

For example,

Oris - Chronoris

Rolex - Rolex Cellini

I am not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing. Personally i know there is this stigma Tag Heuer = bad Heuer = good. But in my opinion that is only for the WIS community. The bigger market out there still think Tag Heuer is goooooddddddd keeepppp ooonn rockkingggg DJ ! (Pardon the pun).

I myself think that Tag Heuer is good for several line like Aquaracer. I think Aquaracer should be forever Tag Heuer and never Heuer. Or V4. But i do prefer to purchase Carrera, Autavia, Monza, Monaco in Heuer rather than Tag Heuer. I think deep down inside management knows this, hence the movement name is H01, H02, H02T not TH01, TH02 etc. Not necessarily true. Just my hunch.

Aquagraph · Dec 5, 2018

OttoWilliam
About the Tag Heuer - Heuer issue, some brands deliberately did similar thing about the brand though. Although not identically similar situation etc

For example,

Oris - Chronoris

Rolex - Rolex Cellini

I am not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing. Personally i know there is this stigma Tag Heuer = bad Heuer = good. But in my opinion that is only for the WIS community. The bigger market out there still think Tag Heuer is goooooddddddd keeepppp ooonn rockkingggg DJ ! (Pardon the pun).

I myself think that Tag Heuer is good for several line like Aquaracer. I think Aquaracer should be forever Tag Heuer and never Heuer. Or V4. But i do prefer to purchase Carrera, Autavia, Monza, Monaco in Heuer rather than Tag Heuer. I think deep down inside management knows this, hence the movement name is H01, H02, H02T not TH01, TH02 etc. Not necessarily true. Just my hunch.

Nobody minds having a Heuer movement in a TAG Heuer watch, but a TAG Heuer movement in a Heuer watch is just causing problems for the sake of it, so it was a no brainer I'm sure.

On a related note, my new 3000 has a pesky Heuer clasp on it, that's my first piece of Heuer!😉

Well, no I guess my Carrera has the Heuer 01 in it too...

THJunkie · Dec 5, 2018

Some great discussion in this thread. Good to see others’ perspective and how they see the brand. Quite enlightening and informative.

absolutemustard · Dec 5, 2018

THJunkie
i think the comment about the breadth of the brand (low to high end) is very valid. TH are somewhat unique in that way.

I never liked that argument for TH (low to high end). That is not an excuse to not have a cohesive identity. Their offerings can be very fragmented, and they are chasing too many avenues: F1/racing, diving, fashion, smartwatch, art/graffiti crap, avant guard, historic, etc. They need to pick a few paths and own them, not dabble in them all to make the masses happy. When you make everyone happy, there is no identity to the brand.

El Matarife · Dec 17, 2018

I like it that TAG Heuer has something to suit many tastes - and wallets. I think some of the designs are naff, but some are breath taking. I so wish I'd pushed the boat out and gone for the Bamford Monaco.

I know that Omega and Rolex is good quality with a top pedigree, but by Mansell's Moustache both of those brands bore me utterly. And Breitling designs have always stood out by being just so gaudy.

I think the style-quality-price balance of TH is really good.

wt_guy · Dec 20, 2018

Ehh, I would disagree with calling anything TAG does "low-end" or comparing it to Skoda or even VW. I would call it pretty firmly Audi. Audi makes lower-priced commuter vehicles like the A3 (still nice/expensive enough that it doesn't drop down into low-end territory) all the way up to things like the S8 and R8 which competes to some degree with supercars. I would certainly argue that the high-end Audis rub off on the low-end Audis more than the other way around; typically someone driving an A3 gets a little more respect/"street cred" than someone driving a Ford, even if the particular Ford in question would cost more. Just like someone in the 90's driving a BMW 318ti with cloth seats would still get style points for driving a BMW even if it was the cheapest one available and cost less than many "everyday" cars from more mainstream brands. TAG doesn't offer anything in the sub-$1000 range (to say nothing of the sub-$500 range) such as, say, Tissot or Victorinox or Luminox, which are reasonable quality Swiss manufacturers that often use the same Swiss movements that TAGs use, but can be found much cheaper (and also lack the street cred). I would see VW as being more like Seiko, where you can find from $100 up to $2000 or so in the main Seiko line (leaving out Grand Seiko). People "in the know" about watches have respect for Seiko, while most people just see them as everyday/mainstream watches. In fact, most everyday people place higher value on watches from fashion brands such as Armani or Michael Kors. Those are Geelys with Audi stickers covering the logos.

So yes, TAG is a definite step up in the *mainstream* watch world -- you don't go shopping for TAGs unless you know you are going to spend what is (for most people) a crazy amount of money for a watch. Just like you don't go to the Audi dealership thinking you're going to get a $20,000 barebones commuter. But they're not crazy inaccessible; a Ford driver wouldn't feel intimidated going into an Audi dealership the way he might walking into a Lamborghini or Bentley dealership. I feel like they occupy a good place in the market -- and possibly a unique one; I can't really think of another brand that covers the "entry luxury" price range so well. As any WIS will tell you, there are watches just as good as TAG for lower prices (e.g. I've got a Marathon TSAR that I would put up against any TAG within 4x its price in terms of quality -- but nobody I meet is going to recognize or care about my Marathon, just as they wouldn't about an Oris or Longines or Squale or Junghans or Glycine -- all brands which I would readily compare to the quality of TAG, on the whole and excluding "supercar" pieces like the Carrera 02T).

TAG is one of what I would consider a very few "popular" watch brands. Like, ask people on the street, name some watch brands and what you think the average price from those brands is. What will you come up with? (This is biased to the USA, just looking at for example ads that I see in fashion magazines, popular brands at department and jewelry stores, etc.)

Low-end (cheap/beater/basic): Timex, Casio

Medium-low (nice/basic/presentable/everyday): Fossil, Seiko, Citizen, Tissot, Invicta, Bulova, Victorinox, Luminox, Kenneth Cole, Michael Kors, other fashion brands

Medium-high (semi-luxury, show-off): TAG Heuer

High (luxury, definite show-off, rich guy): Rolex, Omega, Breitling

Ultra-high (celebrity level wealthy): Patek Philippe

So TAG has enough of an advertising budget that they are far better known than, say, Tudor, which prices watches in the same zone but far fewer people know about or would recognize even as a brand (not even a particular watch -- 9 out of 10 people in the USA would name TAG Heuer before naming Tudor as a luxury watch brand).

In the end, I like TAG as a brand. I would buy some TAGs over what I would see as a comparable Rolex (e.g. I would take a Monaco over a Rolex Daytona) but I know they will never have quite the cachet that Rolex does. I don't feel that the lower-end TAGs such as the Formula 1 dilute the brand. They're like the Audi A3 of the watch world. They get your foot in the door in a way that I don't think the other luxury brands care to do, and I think it's a win for TAG to own that part of the market and then to work upward from there.

Sorry, I know this was rambling 😀

Jim Dollares · Dec 20, 2018

@wt_guy very well written and I totally agree with the the comparison to Audi, have never thought about that before.

THJunkie · Dec 20, 2018

wt_guy
Ehh, I would disagree with calling anything TAG does "low-end" or comparing it to Skoda or even VW.

A few points of clarifications.

My comment was in relation to the ‘luxary’ watch market. Not the entire watch market ranging from £10 Casio to £1m RMs.

My post comparing Tag to VAG group was in the context of the window display comment at the beginning of this post. I.e mixing the ‘lower’ end of their own range with the higher end of their range in same display. So my comparison of subsections of TH range to VAG (which subdivides with brands but uses similar parts as have LVHM group) was relative and metaphorical not literal.

Obviously nothing that Tag makes is truly cheap or low end in actual terms. That would be absurd and quite obvious I would have thought to anyone engaged in analytical debate. But in the context of ‘brands that operate or aspire to be’ luxary then I still think my analogy holds true. Same could be saidnof Omega. Which my other fav brand. Though their price points are slightly higher. So seat and skoda from thr VAG analogy would drop off the scale.

I’m also based in the UK so my perception of the brand is based on observation in the UK/Europe. Although I bought my first Tag in Houston. It was so long ago i don’t even remember the name of the shop nevermind how the brand was displayed in store. Back then being a 20 somthing Tag was an aspirational luxary brand in my circle. Everyone was buying Kiriums in same way as I imagine similar crowd today would likely be buying cheaper Hublot or a few years ago maybe Panerai. They were a bit of a craze in the City at one point.

Cars are much more expensive in Europe than US. So maybe that explains the disparity. You seem to think Tag is 1 rung up the ladder higher overall than I would personally place them, or most of the ‘research’ material I’ve come across generally suggests. Which is fair enough. We all have different perceptions of value and positioning. Luxury to some is entry level to others. Over half the world’s population don’t own a car so a Skoda would be high end luxary to them!

My comment was not at all intended as a slight on the relative value of TH. i’ve done that plenty in other threads. Even when commenting on mid range (price) Heuers. Simply that their positioning is all over the place. I own 7 Tags. Inclusing a ‘cheap quartz’ one. Which was my first. (Has sentimental value but is a bit naff looking if I’m completely honest). But I’ve been a long term and still am a huge fan of the brand. I just find their ‘brand mesaage’ confusing - more from a general sense of observing business practice and marketing than really caring what the brand means in terms of ‘kudos’. If I’m honeat with myself the whole ‘Steve mcQueen’ or First watch on the moon bollox is meaningless to me. It makes for an interesting conversation. But I bought a Monaco because I liked the shape. Fact I’d confused it with a Monza did not dawn on me until after purchase ::facepalm1::

. I just remembered seeing a vaguely square watch years ago and not being able to afford it at the time lol.

Merry Christmas and may 2019 bring us all good health and more good heuer to enjoy.

😁

TonyStark · Dec 21, 2018

Using car industry as a metaphor is good but I think it works better at LVMH level. I.e. they have tag, zenith, hublot....

Tag positioning/strategy points that irk me when walking past most dealers:

1. Cluttered displays with too many generic watches (needle in a haystack searching through infinite aquaracer versions)
2. Not clear enough family/identity separation between different collections with most collections trying to do everything (sport, elegance, chrono, auto, quartz....)
3. Entry level autos not good value against others in the price bracket
4. too many different styles of carrera! Call one of them something else!
6. Monaco - cal 11 and cal 12 side by side, almost identical except for the badge. Who would understand that?
5. Not making enough of the heritage line

Even as someone with big brand loyalty nd affiliation I find my eyes drawn elsewhere increasingly when it comes to new watches. Tudor and bremont to name two who are doing it better right now

TonyStark · Dec 21, 2018

I see earlier in the thread some discussion on heuer vs tag heuer branding. I remember a clip from biver saying he didn't understand why tag ever changed the name...' perhaps now I am here we should call it now biver heuer... but that the tag brand was the brand and to change again wouldn't make sense either

Its fairly clear to me at least that using tag heuer for the leading edge/avant garde stuff and heuer branding for heritage works well. However application of that strategy has been inconsistent over the last decade I would say and remains a little confused to this day

THJunkie · Dec 21, 2018

TonyStark
Using car industry as a metaphor is good but I think it works better at LVMH level. I.e. they have tag, zenith, hublot....

Tag positioning/strategy points that irk me when walking past most dealers:

1. Cluttered displays with too many generic watches (needle in a haystack searching through infinite aquaracer versions)
2. Not clear enough family/identity separation between different collections with most collections trying to do everything (sport, elegance, chrono, auto, quartz....)
3. Entry level autos not good value against others in the price bracket
4. too many different styles of carrera! Call one of them something else!
6. Monaco - cal 11 and cal 12 side by side, almost identical except for the badge. Who would understand that?
5. Not making enough of the heritage line

Even as someone with big brand loyalty nd affiliation I find my eyes drawn elsewhere increasingly when it comes to new watches. Tudor and bremont to name two who are doing it better right now

You’ve hit the nail on head. Agree that TAG / VAG analogy probably works better at group level. Yes Tag’s own line spreads accross such a large range of the market there is quite some overlap.

How does the Zenith range differ? The calibers are no longer ‘better’. The skeletonized look now with tag and hublot. Price point overlaps all over the place. All a bit confusing.

But moving beyond the analogy, your points about the display are precisely the thoughts I had when starting this thread. Glad I’m not the only one confused and frustrated by it.

I agree Tudor should be their benchmark. Their display is spot on these days and their sales are teflecting this from what I gather.

Mr_Orange · Jan 3, 2019

THJunkie
It struck me that TH’s window and in store displays are similar. Boring and confusiong with not many people looking. Which is a real shame.

Spot the mistake:

Ara · Jan 4, 2019

Mr_Orange
Spot the mistake:

The Aquaracers look amazing.

Mr_Orange · Jan 4, 2019

Ara
The Aquaracers look amazing.

You win a cookie 😀.

This is the TAG Heuer boutique!

Aquagraph · Jan 4, 2019

Mr_Orange
You win a cookie 😀.

This is the TAG Heuer boutique!

Which one?

Mr_Orange · Jan 4, 2019

Aquagraph
Which one?

I'm not sure I should name and shame.......

THJunkie · Jan 4, 2019

Mr_Orange
You win a cookie 😀.

This is the TAG Heuer boutique!

That’s an AR I’d actually buy. Especially if sold at AR prices 😁

THJunkie · Jan 4, 2019

Mr_Orange
I'm not sure I should name and shame.......

There are probably enough clues in the reflection to figure it out with some detective work 😁

Edit:

Country begins with an A.
City begins with a B.
Shop over the road sells nice handbags.

Mr_Orange · Jan 4, 2019

THJunkie
There are probably enough clues in the reflection to figure it out with some detective work 😁

Edit:

Country begins with an A.
City begins with a B.
Shop over the road sells nice handbags.

You also win a cookie 😀.

They have the display corrected today, phew!

Tag Heuer Positioning

Aquagraph

OttoWilliam

Aquagraph

THJunkie

absolutemustard

El Matarife

wt_guy

Jim Dollares

THJunkie

TonyStark

TonyStark

THJunkie

Mr_Orange

Ara

Mr_Orange

Aquagraph

Mr_Orange

THJunkie

THJunkie

Mr_Orange

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