Is my TAG Heuer Authentic? All questions here please

Aquagraph
Posts
22,689
Likes
32,340
N none123;2
Then how come I can get a certificate from a watch maker, that confirms the watch is authentic?
Like this one: https://www.chrono24.com/tagheuer/tag-heuer-2023-carrera-calibre-5-day-date-war201eba0723-automatic-41-mm--boxcardbooklet--id33970502.htm?

How do they even check this?

Well I'm sure that makes people feel better about buying a watch but how much faith do you have in this unknown 'watchmaker'? I mean, okay, I'm sure a watchmaker would be better at spotting a fake than someone who isn't used to handling watches, but most watchmakers work on a variety of brands and aren't really familiar with any one in particular. As I understand it there are some tests that TAG Heuer can do on the watch that a watchmaker can't. Like a metallurgy test. In this day and age it's simply not a case of opening the back and immediately it's the wrong movement, because the movements are cloned too. Does the certificate guarantee to refund your money if it's proven to be a fake in the future? If not then what is it's actual value?
 
Aquagraph
Posts
22,689
Likes
32,340
Also, once you come to sell the watch, don't expect the certificate to be much use. If watches, boxes, stickers, warranty cards etc can be faked then so can certificates.
 
N
Posts
13
Likes
0
Aquagraph Aquagraph
Well I'm sure that makes people feel better about buying a watch but how much faith do you have in this unknown 'watchmaker'? I mean, okay, I'm sure a watchmaker would be better at spotting a fake than someone who isn't used to handling watches, but most watchmakers work on a variety of brands and aren't really familiar with any one in particular. As I understand it there are some tests that TAG Heuer can do on the watch that a watchmaker can't. Like a metallurgy test. In this day and age it's simply not a case of opening the back and immediately it's the wrong movement, because the movements are cloned too. Does the certificate guarantee to refund your money if it's proven to be a fake in the future? If not then what is it's actual value?

When you buy from a professional seller on Chrono24, you can get 14 days buyer protection, so if I can prove it's a fake within the 14 days, I get all my money back and the fake watch for free. Kind of a win-win for me.
But if only Tag Heuer can prove it's a fake, wouldn't it get pretty expensive to have it checked by them? It's probably too expensive for me to even consider buying a used watch online.
 
Aquagraph
Posts
22,689
Likes
32,340
I believe it is free, but you are unlikely to get it back in 14 days and therein lies the problem.
 
N
Posts
13
Likes
0
Aquagraph Aquagraph
I believe it is free, but you are unlikely to get it back in 14 days and therein lies the problem.

Damn... but this is a professional seller from 2012 with lots of customers. I could ruin their reputation if it turns out to be fake and also get them banned from Chrono24. I'm sure they wouldn't want that. That's probably why they have the (probably invalid) certificate (from unkown, "verified" as Chrono24 claims, watchmaker) in the first place
 
Aquagraph
Posts
22,689
Likes
32,340
Well, you are free to buy it and either trust them and their certificate if you wish, or buy it and send it to TAG Heuer and hopefully it turns out to be okay. There is a lot to be said for a seller that has history because that is better than a seller that doesn't. Even better if it is a seller with a physical store who has an interest in maintaining their reputation. But also keep in mind that there are some flaky grey market businesses who have 5 stars on review websites, because most fakes are not discovered until the battery needs changing or the watch needs servicing - 3/5 years after the sale. Most reviews can only be left for up to a couple of weeks after the sale, so yes... when these people leave their reviews they are happy. Honestly these reviews are worthless other than to reassure about deliveries, etc. Unfortunately we've been conditioned to put way too much faith in these review sites, and unfortunately Amazon is not a place to buy watches from either, since Amazon mix their own stock with marketplace seller stock so it is polluted with watches from God knows where... and I'm pretty sure no one working at Amazon would know a fake from a real watch either.
So yet again I'm afraid the best advice is buy new from an AD or a TAG Heuer boutique, or a re-seller with a good reputation like Watchfinder, someone who will put things right if you eventually have to send your watch back to TAG and they tell you it's a (very good) fake.
 
Jim Dollares
Posts
10,377
Likes
13,704
Anyone can be a self proclaimed expert and issue an "authenticity guarantee" but in most cases it doesn't guatantee anything
 
N
Posts
13
Likes
0
Aquagraph Aquagraph
Well, you are free to buy it and either trust them and their certificate if you wish, or buy it and send it to TAG Heuer and hopefully it turns out to be okay. There is a lot to be said for a seller that has history because that is better than a seller that doesn't. Even better if it is a seller with a physical store who has an interest in maintaining their reputation. But also keep in mind that there are some flaky grey market businesses who have 5 stars on review websites, because most fakes are not discovered until the battery needs changing or the watch needs servicing - 3/5 years after the sale. Most reviews can only be left for up to a couple of weeks after the sale, so yes... when these people leave their reviews they are happy. Honestly these reviews are worthless other than to reassure about deliveries, etc. Unfortunately we've been conditioned to put way too much faith in these review sites, and unfortunately Amazon is not a place to buy watches from either, since Amazon mix their own stock with marketplace seller stock so it is polluted with watches from God knows where... and I'm pretty sure no one working at Amazon would know a fake from a real watch either.
So yet again I'm afraid the best advice is buy new from an AD or a TAG Heuer boutique, or a re-seller with a good reputation like Watchfinder, someone who will put things right if you eventually have to send your watch back to TAG and they tell you it's a (very good) fake.

Thank you for the long reply. It was very helpful.

I forgot to mention that according to the seller, the watch is still under warranty with the manufacturer, Tag Heuer, until January 2025. I assume this is according to the warranty card that comes with it and the matching serial number on the back of the watch.
Is this a good thing, or is the likelihood of the watch being a fake just as high?
 
Aquagraph
Posts
22,689
Likes
32,340
I guess it's a positive sign, but it's equally possible that there are 50 fakes out there with the same serial number... even if TAG told you the watch is under warranty (by the serial number) until they actually see the watch and open it you can't be 100% sure. It's a game of probabilities, basically. I bought a watch from Ebay a couple of weeks ago, I'm 99% sure it's real, but until it needs a service I won't be 100%.
 
Aquagraph
Posts
22,689
Likes
32,340
Without meaning to be condescending, the less you know the more likely you are to get caught out. If you need to ask then you probably don't know enough to make a positive decision. It's an unfortunate reality that fakes are now so good that it's rarely a case of being able to spot them from a photo. It's also possible that by moving production of parts to China the brands have opened themselves to fakes made with genuine parts - if that can even be called a fake, this has happened in the trainer world already and probably other sectors.

Maybe this is why the industry is milking every penny out of it while they can because they can see a time not too distant in the future when real and fake becomes pretty meaningless?
 
Jim Dollares
Posts
10,377
Likes
13,704
Aquagraph Aquagraph
Without meaning to be condescending, the less you know the more likely you are to get caught out. If you need to ask then you probably don't know enough to make a positive decision. It's an unfortunate reality that fakes are now so good that it's rarely a case of being able to spot them from a photo. It's also possible that by moving production of parts to China the brands have opened themselves to fakes made with genuine parts - if that can even be called a fake, this has happened in the trainer world already and probably other sectors.

Maybe this is why the industry is milking every penny out of it while they can because they can see a time not too distant in the future when real and fake becomes pretty meaningless?
This is an interesting point. Perhaps the end game is that most swiss watch companies die because they price themselves so high than no one will buy their watches. But those that survive, can go almost 100% in-house (or back to "in switzerland") where all parts are manufactured in Switzerland. It might at least make it more complex for the criminal chinese companies.
 
N
Posts
13
Likes
0
Aquagraph Aquagraph
I guess it's a positive sign, but it's equally possible that there are 50 fakes out there with the same serial number... even if TAG told you the watch is under warranty (by the serial number) until they actually see the watch and open it you can't be 100% sure. It's a game of probabilities, basically. I bought a watch from Ebay a couple of weeks ago, I'm 99% sure it's real, but until it needs a service I won't be 100%.

Good news. The professionel seller has sent me a document about the Tagheuer Warranty Activation System.
https://ibb.co/fqCGgRL (let me know if it's sensitive info, so I can delete the link)
But if the watch is indeed genuine and had legal origin, meaning it's not from the gray market, why the hell are they selling it for only 1629 euros when it's only 1 year old and still under warranty until January 2025 and the new price is 3400 euros.
Something smells fishy, or am I just being paranoid?
Edited:
 
Aquagraph
Posts
22,689
Likes
32,340
Not all Swiss watches hold their value like Rolex unfortunately. It could be a great deal, or it could be too good to be true...
 
N
Posts
13
Likes
0
Aquagraph Aquagraph
Not all Swiss watches hold their value like Rolex unfortunately. It could be a great deal, or it could be too good to be true...

True... true indeed.
There is another seller, a private seller this time, on Chrono24 who claims he bought his watch from a Tag Heuer boutique in 2021 and has an invoice for it that he is probably willing to show.
If he shows me the invoice and everything checks out with it, do you think that's proof enough it's real... or at least more trustworthy than the professional seller I mentioned before?
 
Aquagraph
Posts
22,689
Likes
32,340
It would certainly be a plus, wonder if you could get some verification from the boutique? Probably not as it would no doubt be protected by some privacy law or other... (data protection act here in the UK).
 
N
Posts
13
Likes
0
Aquagraph Aquagraph
It would certainly be a plus, wonder if you could get some verification from the boutique? Probably not as it would no doubt be protected by some privacy law or other... (data protection act here in the UK).

Funny you should say that, because I have just sent an email to the boutique (France) with the invoice attached. I don't think it's a problem, I have explained my whole situation and all I want is to confirm that this invoice is genuine. Of course, the seller has crossed out his name and address, so it should be fine.


Btw., I would like to talk more about the other professional seller, to clarify things, before I give up on them completely. Wasn't the proof of the Tag Heuer Warranty Activation System proof enough that the watch is real? I guess there is a small probability that this retailer has a real one and a bunch of fake ones with the same serial number, so he can sell the counterfeit ones and claim they are real by passing them off as the real one. I sound kinda paranoid with that theory lol.
 
imagwai
Posts
6,095
Likes
7,367
I was going to suggest that an invoice from a boutique is only any good if you can verify it did indeed come from that boutique and they can confirm the sale.
 
Jim Dollares
Posts
10,377
Likes
13,704
N none123;2
Wasn't the proof of the Tag Heuer Warranty Activation System proof enough that the watch is real
The criminals who make the fakes will use serial numbers from genuine watches to trick customers. There can be thousands of fakes using one same genuine serial number, so the match in TAG's system doesn't prove anything in itself
 
1164 More Posts...
Sign up or log in to reply...

Similar threads

kappa_md

My Ultimate TAG Heuer Aquaracer (CAK211A)

kappa_md TAG Heuer Discussion
kappa_md
kappa_md
Posts
6
Views
2K
D

Is my Vintage Heuer Authentic? All questions here please

Donna Vintage Heuer Discussion
B
Berg136
Posts
569
Views
203K