Is my TAG Heuer Authentic? All questions here please

Aquagraph
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Okay, but they are being discussed in a thread about authenticity...
 
imagwai
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Aquagraph Aquagraph
Okay, but they are being discussed in a thread about authenticity...
It all started because someone said that grey market watches never come with a warranty. I think we concluded it depends on what you consider to be "grey market". 馃榾
 
jamesbizs
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Aquagraph Aquagraph

Should it not say TAG Heuer on the movement?
No, these aren't tag heuer movements. They are generic swiss movements. Which is why him spending that much time on the movement, was just hilarious for me. As it would tell him literally NOTHING.
 
jamesbizs
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imagwai imagwai
It all started because someone said that grey market watches never come with a warranty. I think we concluded it depends on what you consider to be "grey market". 馃榾
If they are selling watches they get from a dealer, that the dealer signs the warranty card, from the manufacturer, which then means the DEALER sold the watch, then by definition that seller is not a grey market seller. Grey market are brands sold outside the approved distribution channels of the brand owner. Which allows prices lower than the Brand would ever approve, and advertising in places they wouldn't approve. What I want to know, is if the brand owners KNOW that a third party is selling watches from the AD, and if the AD is even allowed to apply THEIR warranty to such watches that are not sold by AD, as everything I've ever known and experienced, brands ONLY allow warranties of AD sold watches. Otherwise, there would literally be no point of an AD. AD's have specific rules they must follow, which is the only reason they are even allowed to get these watches, let alone have approval for providing warranties that the brand owner and not the AD, will have to abide by. Something tells me there is funny business going on here, that the brand owner doesn't know about. Brand owners also have pretty strict rules about pricing. Something is really not right here, or there is missing information. Remember, I'm IN this actual business and have been for quite awhile. I can not understand how any of this would actually happen, based on everything I know about the entire process.
 
jamesbizs
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This is a fake.
This is a fake.

This guy knows absolutely nothing, or is just a scammer.

Oh look, another fake. lol


God, just look at the logo on the box in the first second of the video. These are the same watch manufacture as the watches we've been after on here.
 
Jim Dollares
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jamesbizs jamesbizs
If they are selling watches they get from a dealer, that the dealer signs the warranty card, from the manufacturer, which then means the DEALER sold the watch, then by definition that seller is not a grey market seller.
I remember Walter von K盲nel in an interview talking about grey market and how big the problem is with AD's providing grey market sellers with watches. The AD stamps the warranty card but leaves the name and date blank and then once the watch is sold to end customer the grey market dealer can just add date and buyer name. So I guess at least the former CEO of one of the world's biggest brands does not agree with your definition of grey market. He explains that within the Swatch group they have different "warning systems" and when they can identify an AD in Italy for example providing a lot of stock to grey market sites they will give that AD an official warning and then something like three strikes and you are out. I guess the problem is often to prove that "no dear customer, your warranty is not valid cause you did not buy your watch from the dealer that stamped your warranty card".

To me it seems that most grey market dealers have a 6-10 weeks delivery, they often say that this is due to that they need to reach out to their dealer network and see who can provide the watch and when.

jamesbizs jamesbizs
Grey market are brands sold outside the approved distribution channels of the brand owner.

I am not that read up on grey market but can you please explain how this would work? The brand manufactures the watch and then suddenly it pops outside their distribution channels. Who is the bad guy when it is not the AD, is it the local distributors?
 
jamesbizs
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Jim Dollares Jim Dollares
I remember Walter von K盲nel in an interview talking about grey market and how big the problem is with AD's providing grey market sellers with watches. The AD stamps the warranty card but leaves the name and date blank and then once the watch is sold to end customer the grey market dealer can just add date and buyer name. So I guess at least the former CEO of one of the world's biggest brands does not agree with your definition of grey market. He explains that within the Swatch group they have different "warning systems" and when they can identify an AD in Italy for example providing a lot of stock to grey market sites they will give that AD an official warning and then something like three strikes and you are out. I guess the problem is often to prove that "no dear customer, your warranty is not valid cause you did not buy your watch from the dealer that stamped your warranty card".

To me it seems that most grey market dealers have a 6-10 weeks delivery, they often say that this is due to that they need to reach out to their dealer network and see who can provide the watch and when.



I am not that read up on grey market but can you please explain how this would work? The brand manufactures the watch and then suddenly it pops outside their distribution channels. Who is the bad guy when it is not the AD, is it the local distributors?
I read that differently than you I think. I saw it as him agreeing with me, and that what's happening IS NOT how it's allowed, and it's only happening by circumventing the rules set in place by the brands. And when caught, they AD will get in trouble. Just because a grey market dealer might do something like this, doesn't mean that they don't fit the original definition of a grey market dealer. Just means they are breaking the rules. They aren't supposed to. They are essentially pretending to be an AD, as ONLY AD's are allowed to provide a manufactures warranty.


Oh and to your second question. Sometimes brands also unload a lot of watches, which the understanding that those watches will never be covered under any warranty from them. There are multiple sources of grey market watches that grey dealers can go to. And I don't know if we can call anyone the bad guy. At least not legally or morally. In your first example, both the AD and the grey dealer would be " the bad guy", tho the grey market dealer isn't breaking any rules, except for perhaps misrepresenting himself to his customers. But in the end, the customer gets a watch cheaper than a dealer, with all the perks. Tho that can also sully the brand itself, which makes it harder for everyone involved in the end. Which is why brands are so strict with sales channels, pricing, and avertising rules for the AD

By the way, I myself can be considered a grey market dealer. Tho on a very small scale now. But at one time I was a big grey market dealer, and did buy from AD's and manufactures too. Or from third party people, who got them from whereever the hell they got them from lol
 
Jim Dollares
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jamesbizs jamesbizs
Just because a grey market dealer might do something like this, doesn't mean that they don't fit the original definition of a grey market dealer. Just means they are breaking the rules. They aren't supposed to.
Ok so you do actually consider third party dealers that source from AD's to be grey market dealers? This is what I didnt understand, I interpreted you as if these dealers were not grey market. Is there a link where I can read this "original definition" to understand better?

Yes they are breaking the rules, but do you mean also that there are grey market dealers operating "within" the rules? I thought the whole grey market thing was breaking the "rules" defined by the brands.
 
Jim Dollares
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jamesbizs jamesbizs
And I don't know if we can call anyone the bad guy. At least not legally or morally.
No no I just mean in the eyes of the brands. Grey market is awesome, its a win for the AD, the grey market dealer and the customer
 
JAH
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The watches struck me as fake as well but was not sure. Also a red flag for me were on the black Senna F1 when he stated that the watch came separately and he had to buy box elsewhere. Also LE watches are not easily obtained 3 years after...at least not new. CAZ1015.BA0883 as in his one video.
 
JAH
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I think i have read somewhere that the fakes use Ronda5040d in silver (swiss parts) And TH uses Ronda 5040d gold (swiss made)
Correct me if i am wrong.
Maybe we should open our F1's and check movement color ?
 
T
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I am about to purchase a blue dial Tag Formula 1 (ref CA 1210-1) but on the right hand side of the watch face I have the words 'Formula 1 chronograph' instead of 'Chronograph 1/10th' that all others have.

I've searched through TAG catalogues from 1998 to 2004 and cannot see a ref CA1210-1 blue face with the 'Formula 1 chronograph' on the face

Do I have a fake?
 
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Aquagraph
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Yes. I agree the catalogues don't show this, but I am sure I have seen this before and the watch otherwise looks fine to me.
 
T
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Thank you.

It's a bid odd to have virtually all the blue face watches showing 'Chronograph 1/10th' yet this one shows 'Formula 1 Chronograph '

Would be great to get some history on this one. I will get Google working on it a bit more 馃榾

Thanks again.
Edited:
 
Yago
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I鈥檝e been looking at this 2000.
Looks great and in great shape. But I can鈥檛 seem to find other examples of a WE1110 without applied hour markers. Any expert opinions? @Aquagraph ?

A6DCE38A-4B39-4E72-B2CD-A66616CE3DCF.jpeg
 
jamesbizs
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that is an amazingly perfect condition watch, for something that old, AND satin finished, which can't be refinished. There are many different dials for these watches, and sometimes they change even in the same year for no reason. OR they updated the dial for whatever reason. I'll let someone more experienced answer tho.
 
akong71
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jamesbizs jamesbizs
that is an amazingly perfect condition watch, for something that old, AND satin finished, which can't be refinished. There are many different dials for these watches, and sometimes they change even in the same year for no reason. OR they updated the dial for whatever reason. I'll let someone more experienced answer tho.

I agree. I have the same watch, but my version has applied indices. I think there are variants of this watch, as mine is a WE1110-2. The 1991 catalogue shows this watch with the painted indices:

https://www.calibre11.com/catalogue...es/1991-tag-heuer-general-catalogue/#1991-022

So - evidence indicates that variants had both applied and painted indices...
 
Yago
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Thanks guys, debating between this one and a slightly less pristine full set, cheaper and less logistics hassle.
 
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