2023 TAG Heuer Monza Carbon Flyback Chronograph (CR5090.FN6001)

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But at what cost in the long-term. By constantly reinventing their design language, TAG is in danger of harming their brand.

For the polar opposite, look at Rolex - whatever the model, you can tell it's a Rolex, even at a distance, old or new. Well, alright, I suppose it could be a Folex (fake) or homage. But it's still recognisable as Rolex.

I don't think it's fair to judge any other brand by Rolex. Rolex are a phenomenon. I'm not even sure that Rolex's wonderful designs are the cause of their success, I think it's branding. I suspect a lot of Rolex customers (not all admittedly) couldn't give a crap how the watch actually looks as long as it has the crown on the dial.

Generally I actually think branding has overtaken design language in importance. It's the way of the modern world unfortunately, especially with the watch market in decline. How much longer will people wear watches? No one really knows. In a world like that longevity suddenly seems irrelevant, what matters to them is immediate sales and making Bernard even richer.

If I ran a watch company I would listen to the customers in the shops not the people on forums.
 
Aquagraph
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Social media is largely to blame of course, for pretty much everything.
 
imagwai
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I guess what I'm saying is that yes, branding is very important, but that the design of the watch is an integral part of the branding. Just sticking a logo on isn't enough - there has to be cohesiveness and it has to align with the brand. Regardless of sales, arguably, doing skeleton Carreras also damaged Hublot as well as TH if you take a long view. If you see design language change a lot over several years, then you begin to question what the brand is really all about.

And using Rolex as an example was an extreme I admit, but merely to illustrate the point I was making.
 
imagwai
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If I ran a watch company I would listen to the customers in the shops not the people on forums.
Oh, and on this point, yes, you have a point. But sales in the here and now versus undermining your brand over the long-term might translate into poorer sales in the future, in which case it's not worth it.

(Brands are difficult to build and easy to destroy)
 
Aquagraph
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imagwai imagwai
I guess what I'm saying is that yes, branding is very important, but that the design of the watch is an integral part of the branding. Just sticking a logo on isn't enough - there has to be cohesiveness and it has to align with the brand. Regardless of sales, arguably, doing skeleton Carreras also damaged Hublot as well as TH if you take a long view. If you see design language change a lot over several years, then you begin to question what the brand is really all about.

And using Rolex as an example was an extreme I admit, but merely to illustrate the point I was making.

Honestly, I must be very shallow. I just look at a watch and think 'do I like it or don't I?'
It doesn't matter to me how it fits in to the history of the brand.
That's probably why I roll my eyes every time TH gives a new watch a 'story'

Do you think it adversely affected Hublot? I don't see any signs of that... if anything surely the idea was to get entry level buyers into the Carrera and then try and promote them to Hublot, no?
 
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Oh, and on this point, yes, you have a point. But sales in the here and now versus undermining your brand over the long-term might translate into poorer sales in the future, in which case it's not worth it.

(Brands are difficult to build and easy to destroy)

Logically yes, but it seems in the modern age all companies are really only interested in making as much money as possible right now.
And selling the company right before you think it's about to die on its arse.
 
THFan346
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It is very much more a throwaway society since everything is instantly online worldwide.

I have never bought anything in fashion, just because it is in fashion, as tend to keep and use stuff for the long haul. If it’s in fashion, then it’s by sheer chance because I have had it that long, it’s in fashion again. Even then it’s rare.
 
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Plus, let's not forget that TH is entry level, as such it needs to keep grabbing new customers attention, and in this day and age you do that by releasing watches as often as possible and smashing them out on Instagram. If the business model is that TAG is entry level and you expect people to move on to more expensive watches then history is less relevant surely? And I wonder if affluent younger people even care about that stuff. Like the moon landing, even... that is so long ago now. If I was 25 would it impress me that much? I don't think it would. Everything pre-internet is ancient history.
 
imagwai
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Do you think it adversely affected Hublot? I don't see any signs of that...
I guess history will be the judge - probably too early to say really. And quite difficult also to measure what impact any particular decision had on sales. I could be wrong, but I don't think Tag is increasing market share? If anything it's losing out on the entry level to Tudor isn't it? At least that's my perception.

I think designing pieces with the aim of luring people into Hublot later on is a mistake, though. They need to focus on their own brand, and to me, Tag Heuer means motorsports, F1 and chronographs - bright colours and fast cars. And occasionally the odd classic gentleman's racing chrono (like a panda Carrera) 😀
 
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I think, above all, rather than worrying about design language, first they should worry about build quality. People can decide whether they like or dislike designs, but everyone wants a reliable watch and ideally a 5 year warranty...
 
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But you are right, they do have a problem with Tudor being seen as an accessible Rolex... price reduction would be a good place to start. But clearly they don't agree. Maybe they are right, better to sell less pieces at higher prices.... ?
 
Mspeedster
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The video I posted and my viewpoint is specific to this Monza, not meant as a general statement on TAG Heuer.

I'm excited by many things the company is doing, there's a lot to like. But as I said, I'm conflicted about this Monza. I'm glad TAG is trying to stretch themselves with these over the top designs, but it also feels like a part of the company wants to emulate the gaudy Richard Mille style of design. When I first spotted this watch being given to Christian Horner (before it's official reveal) by Frederic, it looked like no TAG Heuer I've ever seen before.

I felt the same way when Biver brought out the H01 skeleton Carrera. He axed the Carrera CH80 which was very much a part of TAG's core DNA and introduced this alien stream from Hublot. I have nothing against the H01 Skeleton. But to me it's not what TAG Heuer was all about, perhaps overtime though it's a part of what TAG Heuer has now become (much to my chagrin).
 
Mspeedster
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Ironic that you are in the middle ground with me and Michael on opposite ends of the scale, hahaha.
I sent him a render for an unreleased watch yesterday saying 'Most hideous thing I've ever seen' he replied 'Could be my watch of the year'. 😁
There you go... but it just goes to show that TAG need to make different watches for different customers.
The complaining is one way traffic though, people who buy quartz F1s don't generally go around slagging off TAG for making 'old crap', they just ignore the things they don't like and focus on what they do.
::stirthepot::
But that is where we differ in our views yet again. When a brand can elicit such polar reactions from within their fan base, it's trying too hard to be too many things to too many people. Another example of consistency is Cartier, very successful and instantly recognizable. I've never been attracted to their style and have no desire to buy a Cartier, but a ton of people do. I believe they've overtaken Omega and are now only second to Rolex.
 
THFan346
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
But that is where we differ in our views yet again. When a brand can elicit such polar reactions from within their fan base, it's trying too hard to be too many things to too many people. Another example of consistency is Cartier, very successful and instantly recognizable. I've never been attracted to their style and have no desire to buy a Cartier, but a ton of people do. I believe they've overtaken Omega and are now only second to Rolex.

The Cartier thing is intriguing. On the one hand, they’re not enticing new customers in by looks alone, as you say you’re not attracted to their style. But to be growing, they must be enticing people in some other way, which I suspect is the branding just like Rolex rather than the same people buying more of the same thing.

Just for the record, I don’t find them enticing either, but I do respect that others like them, plus I get what you’re trying to say in relation to TAG.

You’re basically pointing out that diversification doesn’t always translate into increased sales as people don’t always want/need too many choices. Branding appears to be key in all this, which is something they probably need to focus on more.
 
Yago
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
Yup, just found it. http://www.onthedash.com/watches/monopusher-cushion-case/
Goes back to the 1930's.
21MonoPusherCushion-500x500.jpg
Longines released the Majetek re-edition today. Retro loaded and quite large but I dig it. The all fabric nato is very cool.

028CE366-DCE0-4573-B564-6002BE35D006.jpeg 9C518B78-D2B5-44E9-9768-7ECA8F839EFC.jpeg 484E3934-9E1D-4DD1-91E0-243CB3E6050C.jpeg


Hodinkee article here
 
028CE366-DCE0-4573-B564-6002BE35D006.jpeg 9C518B78-D2B5-44E9-9768-7ECA8F839EFC.jpeg 484E3934-9E1D-4DD1-91E0-243CB3E6050C.jpeg
Mspeedster
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Yago Yago
Longines released the Majetek re-edition today. Retro loaded and quite large but I dig it. The all fabric nato is very cool.

028CE366-DCE0-4573-B564-6002BE35D006.jpeg 9C518B78-D2B5-44E9-9768-7ECA8F839EFC.jpeg 484E3934-9E1D-4DD1-91E0-243CB3E6050C.jpeg


Hodinkee article here
Yes, I saw that all over my social media feeds.
Kind of a strange coincidence that I had been looking at the vintage original last week, not knowing this was coming.
longines-3582-jpg.1558465
 
Aquagraph
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THFan346 bpsmith
The Cartier thing is intriguing. On the one hand, they’re not enticing new customers in by looks alone, as you say you’re not attracted to their style. But to be growing, they must be enticing people in some other way, which I suspect is the branding just like Rolex rather than the same people buying more of the same thing.

Just for the record, I don’t find them enticing either, but I do respect that others like them, plus I get what you’re trying to say in relation to TAG.

You’re basically pointing out that diversification doesn’t always translate into increased sales as people don’t always want/need too many choices. Branding appears to be key in all this, which is something they probably need to focus on more.

I kinda think, similar to Rolex, Cartier are not winning people over with their awesome watch design, but their branding. Now, if you are attracting people with branding then yes I agree you need a product that screams branding without being able to see the badge, and Cartier totally does that just as well as Rolex. You can tell a Rolex or a Cartier a mile away (AP Royal Oak too), and it's true that TAG doesn't have that unified design language. But equally Cartier are just as boring as Rolex at the end of the day. As a watch enthusiast I don't want to get the same thing over and over again. Even if that indicates a unified design language.

One thing that I've really enjoyed about doing my blog over the last 6-7 years is finding out all the oddities and different directions they've gone over the years. I couldn't have maintained my interest if it was like, 'and then in 1972 they changed the font a tiny bit' and 'in 1990 they changed the colour of the text from white to off white'.
 
Hubert
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When the 2015 H01 skeleton I was revealed, I felt it was a complete departure. But to then I fell for it and purchased one and then a blue GMT. As long as the skeleton watches have a good design, I am not opposed to having them as part of the collection.

What bothers me from the skeleton Monza and the skeleton Monacos, is their horrific seconds registers! 🤦
upload_2023-2-22_22-48-25.png upload_2023-2-22_22-46-0.png upload_2023-2-22_22-47-26.png
 
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