2020 TAG Heuer Carrera Sports Chronograph

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Okay, but by upping the price you would create headroom for the Heuer 02 TAG Heuer (not) Carreras to exist in the £5000 range... that was my thinking.

i would love to know what percentage of buyers actually know what movement is in the watch they buy.

Maybe part of the challenge is in making such a big deal of the movement. If you make a big deal of an important part of the value proposition and then charge a premium for it. Then putting the same same part(s) in a cheaper watch undermines that message. Increasing the gap simply points to the absurdity of the whole thing.

high price = scarcity, high quality, exclusivity (of name, component etc)

low price = converse of above.

mix and match then you get into the mess they have now. It is a hard one to fix. I’m getting the impression they intend to fix it by simplifying the range, and charging a premium for the movement. but they’ll probably be tempted to feck that up soon enough.

at the end of the day these movements are simply a premium literally for reinventing the wheel and gaining kudos which justifies a price hike. And it works. It is like the GTI badge on the back of a car in the 80s/90s.it gains the factory big boys some of the kudos that has helped the more ‘prestigious’ charge huge premiums.
 
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i would love to know what percentage of buyers actually know what movement is in the watch they buy.

Probably not as many as we'd like to hope. But then, movements are a massive con anyway. When you look at the price you can buy a movement for, and then you see the difference in prices between quartz watches and mechanical movements, the whole thing is a joke.

Maybe part of the challenge is in making such a big deal of the movement. If you make a big deal of an important part of the value proposition and then charge a premium for it. Then putting the same same part(s) in a cheaper watch undermines that message. Increasing the gap simply points to the absurdity of the whole thing.

Exactly, so how do you do that? You have to have a new movement and you have to make out it's sh*t hot, what you don't do is launch it in a £20000 model one week and then a £2500 model a month later.

high price = scarcity, high quality, exclusivity (of name, component etc)

low price = converse of above.

mix and match then you get into the mess they have now. It is a hard one to fix. I’m getting the impression they intend to fix it by simplifying the range, and charging a premium for the movement. but they’ll probably be tempted to feck that up soon enough.

Probably, because they seem to want to put the Heuer 02 in everything they possibly can. Even a Formula 1!

at the end of the day these movements are simply a premium literally for reinventing the wheel and gaining kudos which justifies a price hike. And it works. It is like the GTI badge on the back of a car in the 80s/90s.it gains the factory big boys some of the kudos that has helped the more ‘prestigious’ charge huge premiums.

It's all smoke and mirrors and bragging rights, unfortunately TAG Heuer are in this awkward position of putting not so great movements in watches (Cal 5 Selitta) and still charging a premium for them.
 
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Surely if the Carrera hadn't been discontinued, then Senna would have been paid to wear it in the 80s and 90s. Then where would we be?
 
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Meanwhile, this is a modern Mitsubishi Eclipse:



Mitsubishi is fast approaching irrelevancy, and they knew they had to sell a crossover. The "Eclipse" name is what Mitsubishi built its name on in North America and they wanted buyers to consider this because of the name.

Nobody wants one.

That is because it is fugly!
 
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Ultimately I can understand why Abrod wants what he wants, I just don't see how it's feasible to go from where are 'now' to there.
 
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Here's where the new line Carrera models rank, compared to some of its rivals.

We all know how massively over-priced Omegas are. Oh wait, and Rolex and Breitling and TAG Heuer....

Comparing RRPs is pointless because of all the guff built into the price.
 
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So Hublot will be selling skeletons at £4000?

I don't see why TAG has to sell a skeleton at all... but if someone wants to go for a skeleton, why not save up a bit more and buy a Hublot at whatever they cost now?

Who would also doubtless have whored themselves to the highest bidder if they had been born a bit later.

And yet the reality is they weren't born later, and so we like the watches because they came from a time when they were worn for utility, not for marketing purposes.

by the 80s TAG Heuer was a 'luxury' brand and nobody was timing their lap on the wristwatch anymore

And yet they still paid a race car driver to wear their watch for some strange reason

Except the people who buy £17,000 Senna Tourbillons presumably

Strange - it doesn't say "Link" anywhere on that watch! Have they done away with the Link line altogether?

the one in the middle looks more akin to a Calibre 16 Carrera



You're right, they're so dissimilar. Silly me!
 
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Difference is today the perception around the brand. The generally same watch is marketed as a luxury product. Rolex and other brands have simply been more successful at ‘upping the game’ without cannibalising their product line too much. This is as much about marketing and business model as it has to do with watchmaking.

Some brands improved quality and maintained volume. Other constrained supply to create artificial scarcity, other chased volume and in some cases sacrificed quality. All different strategies to meet the same end of maximising profits.

Nah these watches aren't luxury products because the companies got greedy over the years. It's because of this:

 
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I don't see why TAG has to sell a skeleton at all... but if someone wants to go for a skeleton, why not save up a bit more and buy a Hublot at whatever they cost now?

Well they don't HAVE to, but they do... or why not save up even more and get a Roger Dubuis?

And yet the reality is they weren't born later, and so we like the watches because they came from a time when they were worn for utility, not for marketing purposes.

Well, that's your prerogative I suppose. But on that basis watch companies should probably stop sponsoring motorsport altogether.

Strange - it doesn't say "Link" anywhere on that watch! Have they done away with the Link line altogether?

You'd be forgiven for thinking so.

You're right, they're so dissimilar. Silly me![/QUOTE]

That's not what I meant, I meant that watch doesn't look obviously 'vintage'.


It's funny to me that Heuer choose to advertise their great motorsport heritage using an actor pretending to be a racing driver, why do they not use Jo Siffert or another sixties driver instead?
 
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Carrera is the flagship of TAG Heuer model. It is the perfect blank canvass to be “avant-garde”

We have to understand TAG Heuer’s philosophy for us to understand it and TH’s direction. We can not put other brands models and compartamentalize it as the same as the Carrera. Carrera means to be daring and to be bold. Although I love the OG Carrera design elements of the 60s, it has evolved to something very modern and updated. TAG Heuer Reissued the Carrera Silver 160 / Montreal which is really great and big heaps of thanks to TH looking at the past heritage, but we are not the only customers of TAG Heuer. It also needs to be contemporary and modern. I really like the Carrera Sports Chronograph (H02) just like the Carrera (H01) Non skeleton dial. They have the elements of the OG Carrera but also quite modern and avant garde. We can not compare it to a Speedmaster or a Daytona which didn’t even slightly changed for the past decades. There is a reason why it was done so, but it can not be said the same for the Carrera.

Carrera houses the tourbillon, the digital connected, the heritage watches, and also the modern generations. We have to look at that perspective. My humble 2 cents.
 
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Well they don't HAVE to, but they do...

Well my whole argument is that TAG should be doing things a bit differently, so I'm cutting the skeletons and the tourbillons from the new lineup. Sorry not sorry! Leave the skeletons for Hublot and the tourbillons for Bvlgari. (And the sporty skeletons to Zenith, who also are quite midguided lately, if improving recently)

on that basis watch companies should probably stop sponsoring motorsport altogether.

Well, there's an argument to be made that modern motorsport, like watchmaking, is somewhat superfluous. The old adage that "racing improves the breed" sadly isn't quite applicable anymore, since costs have gotten so far out of hand that even the pinnacles of the sport - Formula 1 or top-level sports-car prototypes - are rather restricted to a narrow rulebook these days. But the fact remains that there's an inextricable link between motorsport and watch enthusiasm - in fact, it's why I'm here on this forum at all! (And broke. Very very broke.)

You'd be forgiven for thinking so.

Again, the core of my argument: Why does the Carrera have to be everything to everybody? Surely they could have 02T'd a Link. But they didn't, which again, is because nobody cares that Senna wore an S/EL.

That's not what I meant, I meant that watch doesn't look obviously 'vintage'.

What about it looks less vintage than the Carrera 160? If you mean the patinated lume, it's because neither the old King Seikos nor the modern Grand Seikos had lumed dials at all (except for the modern GS sport line which.... putting it charitably.... is not highly subscribed to)

It's funny to me that Heuer choose to advertise their great motorsport heritage using an actor pretending to be a racing driver, why do they not use Jo Siffert or another sixties driver instead?

Well, neither Jo Siffert or Jochen Rindt et al, not even Mario Andretti quite resonate with the public at large the way Steve McQueen does. Which makes sense really given that Steve McQueen in his day was not just an actor but the actor that so many people wanted to emulate. And his aura extends beyond just watches, too.

Leaving aside the problems with his personal life that one should not want to emulate - Steve McQueen wasn't just an actor though. He loved sportscar racing, and wasn't just some schlub who took a part in a movie about racing. "Le Mans" was actually his own passion project, a movie he forced the studios into making on the basis of his star power. And the Heuer he wore was not out of sponsorship then, either - his idol and mentor was none other than Jo Siffert, whose style he based his character's on.

It's funny when you think about it actually, because Steve McQueen arguably made the Monaco in the first place, so it's almost tradition that he continues to do so posthumously 😜

Anyway, TAG's choice of Patrick Dempsey was quite inspired I thought, since he's sort of followed along in the same footsteps, even if he's not quite the immense star that McQueen was.
 
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Personally, I would like to see the Skeleton 02s dropped, with only the tourbillon Skeleton model continuing- to me it makes sense to have an open dial to see the tourbillon cage. The reality is that with this new Carrera family (plus the next series coming in September) there has to be some significant reductions to the current Carrera range.
 
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Personally, I would like to see the Skeleton 02s dropped, with only the tourbillon Skeleton model continuing- to me it makes sense to have an open dial to see the tourbillon cage. The reality is that with this new Carrera family (plus the next series coming in September) there has to be some significant reductions to the current Carrera range.

Agree! Spreading the Carrera too thinly.. It dilutes the essence IMHO.
 
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Personally, I would like to see the Skeleton 02s dropped, with only the tourbillon Skeleton model continuing- to me it makes sense to have an open dial to see the tourbillon cage. The reality is that with this new Carrera family (plus the next series coming in September) there has to be some significant reductions to the current Carrera range.

Jeff Stein of "On the Dash" mentioned that TAG Heuer significantly updates the Carrera about every five years.

It would make sense to clear out the open-dial models that were prevalent from 2015-2019.
Edited:
 
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Personally, I would like to see the Skeleton 02s dropped, with only the tourbillon Skeleton model continuing- to me it makes sense to have an open dial to see the tourbillon cage. The reality is that with this new Carrera family (plus the next series coming in September) there has to be some significant reductions to the current Carrera range.

I agree, I think the H02 skeleton design isn't nearly as successful as the Heuer 01. All that empty space at the top of the dial never worked for me.
 
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Well my whole argument is that TAG should be doing things a bit differently, so I'm cutting the skeletons and the tourbillons from the new lineup. Sorry not sorry! Leave the skeletons for Hublot and the tourbillons for Bvlgari. (And the sporty skeletons to Zenith, who also are quite midguided lately, if improving recently)

Actually, I don't mind that because I never liked the 02 skeleton anyway and I'll never be able to afford a tourbillon.

Well, there's an argument to be made that modern motorsport, like watchmaking, is somewhat superfluous. The old adage that "racing improves the breed" sadly isn't quite applicable anymore, since costs have gotten so far out of hand that even the pinnacles of the sport - Formula 1 or top-level sports-car prototypes - are rather restricted to a narrow rulebook these days. But the fact remains that there's an inextricable link between motorsport and watch enthusiasm - in fact, it's why I'm here on this forum at all! (And broke. Very very broke.)

I guess so, and LVMH gotta spend all that money somewhere, better than paying tax!

Again, the core of my argument: Why does the Carrera have to be everything to everybody? Surely they could have 02T'd a Link. But they didn't, which again, is because nobody cares that Senna wore an S/EL.

Actually I agree, Senna has been shunted around over three models... but then the Link has gone from being 'Sports Elegance' to being a dress watch. The Senna F1s make more sense to me, but then they can't charge £17000 for a F1 can they?

What about it looks less vintage than the Carrera 160? If you mean the patinated lume, it's because neither the old King Seikos nor the modern Grand Seikos had lumed dials at all (except for the modern GS sport line which.... putting it charitably.... is not highly subscribed to)

Well, okay... if you want to put it like that. I never considered a Carrera like this to be vintage.
But maybe you do?
RINGMASTER_red_low.jpg

Well, neither Jo Siffert or Jochen Rindt et al, not even Mario Andretti quite resonate with the public at large the way Steve McQueen does. Which makes sense really given that Steve McQueen in his day was not just an actor but the actor that so many people wanted to emulate. And his aura extends beyond just watches, too.

Leaving aside the problems with his personal life that one should not want to emulate - Steve McQueen wasn't just an actor though. He loved sportscar racing, and wasn't just some schlub who took a part in a movie about racing. "Le Mans" was actually his own passion project, a movie he forced the studios into making on the basis of his star power. And the Heuer he wore was not out of sponsorship then, either - his idol and mentor was none other than Jo Siffert, whose style he based his character's on.

It's funny when you think about it actually, because Steve McQueen arguably made the Monaco in the first place, so it's almost tradition that he continues to do so posthumously 😜

Anyway, TAG's choice of Patrick Dempsey was quite inspired I thought, since he's sort of followed along in the same footsteps, even if he's not quite the immense star that McQueen was.

I'm guessing you wouldn't say the same about Chris Hemsworth... even though probably many more people have seen Rush than Le Mans.😉
 
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I mean, Chris Hemsworth isn't spending his spare time racing though. He played James Hunt and that was it, whereas McQueen spent much of his free time racing.

I think a better analogue would be Fassbender really
 
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Funny you guys should mention Rush. It was on telly last night. Although I've seen it before, I started watching it, but it went on quite late, so have the rest to watch later.
 
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The discussion about positioning of our beloved watches inspired me to think about the issue a bit more systematic. The result is the following chart:

Feedback appreciated.
We can also talk about where TAG Heuer should put the next 'X', or which of them should be erased. 😉
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