Was listening to the Fratello podcast and they had an interesting discussion on vintage inspired watches and whether this is about to die down. They were asking the question about whether the watch industry are doing reissues as they are afraid to do more modern designs as they feel that they cannot compete with the likes of Apple, etc. in this area.

That is an extreme comparison, I must admit, but I think it’s a fair point in the reasoning behind the high number of homage reissues over recent years.

Just interested in your thoughts on whether you think Fratello are right in their discussion point and whether you feel vintage inspired pieces will begin to slow in 2023 and beyond?

 

What up B to the en! First of all, is it possible to link to this discussion you be talking about?

Secondly, I think you've come to the wrong place asking if vintage inspired editions will die. 95% of this forum will be dead if 60's and 70's designs will no longer be priority from Switzerland. On the other hand, if Dinky dong tells everyone that modern designs are the new hot stuff I am sure many will suddenly realise they love it and claim they were always fans of modernistic designs

 

It was on my list of their podcasts and just deleted it. I think it was this one, from about 39 mins on:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/fratello-com/id1468886987?i=1000596441702

I hear you on the popularity here. Just interested in people’s opinions on whether this is likely and how they may feel about it.

 

I don't have the patience to listen to an hour plus podcast, but it really depends on the context of the discussion and meaning of vintage inspired.

Take the Aquaracer as an example, most here would call it a modern design. Yet its roots go back to the 2000 series of the 80s, nicely evolving overtime with each generation's release. The current Orange dial, Night Diver and 844 tribute all take inspiration from certain Heuer models of the past. But clearly faithful re-editions are not core to TAG's strategy, hasn't been for quite a while.

OTOH, Tudor's success in recent years can be linked specifically to creating watches that take strong inspiration from not only their vintage past, but also Rolex's. I don't see them changing that strategy anytime soon.

 

Funny thing this, I wonder if it is the vintage inspired designs that are the reasons for Tudor's success or is it like Rob's ad friend said that people buy Tudor cause they perceive it as a cheap and available Rolex. For collectors surely the romantic vintage designs clearly become a success but it is easy to imagine common people being told by sales reps that "these watches are also made by Rolex but under a different name for a lower price" and buyers can show off their new watch telling people it is a Tudor, made by Roooolex

 

Going back to the original question, don't you think heritage designs must die eventually? Brands will get to a point where they have re-issued everything and buyers will get bored thinking "jesus not another chronograph that looks 60 years old". I think skin divers is a good example, the market got flooded with them and today my impression is that people aint as excited about them as they were 3-5 years ago.

 

Probably a combination of both. But if the Tudors didn't look like vintage Rolex, they would not have the same appeal.

 

The original Tudor 42mm Pelagos is a good example. Everyone says it's a great looking & extremely capable watch. But it wasn't a sales mega hit like the BB58.

 

Until it gets reissued.

Pelagos is my favourite Tudor though tbh.

 

I think it’s that continual improvement that makes it current, as they’re not the same as the original. Yes, I agree it started out as the inspiration, but they’re not vintage reissues if they have slowly evolved, surely?

At the end of the day, nearly every watch could be said to have elements of it that took inspiration from elsewhere.

Tudor will change strategy soon enough if taste changes and they don’t sell so many.

 

Your title and first post said "inspired" not "reissue". That's why I said it really depends on one's meaning.

I never meant to imply the Aquaracer is a "reissue" of any kind, but certain models do take inspiration from the past.

 

It does indeed. Absolutely my fault. I guess my definition is different to yours, so will amend accordingly.

The point of my post is just basically poising the question as to whether the trend will turn away from reissues becoming less popular, with more modern choices taking preference, or whether we are all predisposed to either end of the spectrum.

 

I do think the trend of doing faithful looking vintage reissues has already died down.

In TAG's case, it probably peaked around 2015-2018, with the C11 Monaco, Carrera Telemeter, and heritage Autavia all becoming a part of TAG's standard product line in that timespan. But since 2020, such reissues have been sparse; the Silver 160th, Hodinkee Dato and Panda 60th being the only faithful reissues to be released in the past 3 years. The Montreal, Green/Teal & Red Carreras are heritage inspired, not reissues, since no 60s counterpart exits for them.

I don't consider last year's Monaco Dark Lord tribute or the Aquaracer 844 tribute to be "reissues" either. They are modern designs that take "inspiration" from the past, hence they pay tribute. I see this as TAG Heuer's current strategy to honor their history. Using legacy names and taking design elements from the past, but re-imagining them with modern looking watches.

Omega has for a long time offered a mix of both worlds, but really faithful reissues haven't been released that often either. And when they have, like the Gold Apollo 11 50th Anniversary or 321 Ed White Speedmaster, they've been quite expensive and super hard to get.

I don't believe Breitling has done a faithful reissue since the Co-Pilot AVI & Top Time "Zorro" in 2020/21. Last year's Cosmonaute was more of a tribute style watch to me.

 

I also believe the vintage reissue has run its course. The brands will now move forward with updating models but still borrowing from the past to tie the two together. The watch still needs some romance of the past but have new tech and design to bring it to the present.

As for Tag Heuer, I think they will move more towards trying to put Heuer behind them. Marketing wise the Tag Heuer brand is more current in the common consumer than Heuer. Heuer rings with the vintage market but not with today’s customer. Especially if they are trying to bring new younger consumers to the brand. Mario, Solar, colourful F1’s and Connected are indicators of them trying to connect with that market.

I don’t mind Tag on my dial as long as it’s good design. Anyone that asks me about my watches doesn’t know the history of Heuer, only that it’s a Tag, the brand they’ve known from their childhood. Heuer only confuses them. They should just work towards making watches the consumer wants - everything else will fall into place.

 

Sorry, but I disagree. I mean who cares what the youngins think? Or what they are confused about. I realize they are the future collectors but there will always be the history of the brand. Much like Rolly, Omega and the like. Some adaptations of vintage style points are welcomed by me.

 

I agree. No point having Heuer on the dial of standard releases. Only a matter of time before the Mcqueen Monaco is updated with a TAG Heuer logo. The market for new Heuer branded watches might not be large enough to warrant loads of future releases. Usually these also get plenty of press, further alienating 'new' TAG Heuer customers and invoking cries by commentators that every TAG Heuer should have Heuer on the dial.
Maybe not a bad thing to let the Heuer brand rest firmly in the past for enthusiasts and collectors to enjoy.

 

Agreed.
However, Heuer branded watches do make sense for a select few. The C11 McQueen Monaco just wouldn't look right with the TAG Heuer logo on it (IMHO), since it's supposed to be a re-edition of the 1133B. If it's a re-edition, it really needs the Heuer logo to be faithful.

For re-imagined tributes, like the H02 Dark Lord, they could go either way. I would've preferred it with the Heuer logo, but the TAG Heuer logo certainly wouldn't stop me from getting it.

Sometimes I jokingly wonder if the brand needs two logos, like this:


Both represent TAG Heuer. But watches that are modern and/or avant garde get the TAG shield. Watches that are retro inspired get the Heuer shield.

Nah, probably would confuse people even more!

 

I don't think (some watch community) people want every TAG to have Heuer on the dial, I think they want every new TAG to look like a Heuer..