Swiss watch brands sales revenue- 2006-2018

Calibre11
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Can't find an easy way to embed this video, but here is a very interesting post from Linkedin

Screen Shot 2019-12-05 at 4.05.14 PM.png


https://www.linkedin.com/posts/thierryhuron_rolex-omega-cartier-activity-6607873799138406400-l021

Note that Georges Kern from Breitling has already posted to say that the "most" of numbers are wrong, but in the absence of any official data, it's probably as good an estimate as I have seen.

Worth checking out the video, but here are two screenshots from 2006 and finally 2018
Screen Shot 2019-12-05 at 4.09.58 PM.png Screen Shot 2019-12-05 at 4.08.19 PM.png
 
Hubert
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Jeez! Rolex is a juggernaut.
 
Jim Dollares
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So based on these estimates Tag has not grown at all, probably very upsetting for LVMH IF the numbers are true. If Kern says the numbers are wrong I believe more that they are true though 😁
 
Mspeedster
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Jim Dollares Jim Dollares
So based on these estimates Tag has not grown at all, probably very upsetting for LVMH IF the numbers are true. If Kern says the numbers are wrong I believe more that they are true though 😁
TH is actually down a little. Not good at all for TAG, considering we're talking about ~12 years. But LVMH has grown overall, perhaps Hublot's growth was at TAG's expense.
 
Jim Dollares
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
TH is actually down a little. Not good at all for TAG, considering we're talking about ~12 years. But LVMH has grown overall, perhaps Hublot's growth was at TAG's expense.
Maybe in a way that LVMH has invested more into making Hublot a success, besides that I cant really see Tag and Hublot competing for the same customer groups
 
Hubert
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Pitfitter446 Pitfitter446
Overpriced?
And deliberately under-producing to keep demand up.
 
Mspeedster
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Jim Dollares Jim Dollares
Maybe in a way that LVMH has invested more into making Hublot a success, besides that I cant really see Tag and Hublot competing for the same customer groups
That's my point actually, since it was a deliberate strategy by LVMH to position some of their other brands, such as Hublot, as more premium over TH. But if you look at the Swiss watch industry in general (and Rolex in particular), the overall increase seems to indicate the buying public's demand for perceived high-end luxury brands is growing.

In 2006, TH was #4; it has since been overtaken by about half a dozen other companies. There was a time around 7-10 years ago when TH was targeting the high end market, where Rolex, Hublot and even Patek play. But LVMH has since positioned TH as the "affordable" luxury brand. I wonder if that was the right move, given that just about every other brand has grown and TH has not.
 
Ara
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The level of Longines rise totally shocked me.
 
Mspeedster
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In thinking about it more, rather than LVMH's positioning of TH, I feel it's the watch snob "haters" that have perhaps hurt TH's sales more. I've not paid much attention to it, so I'm not sure exactly when this negative vibe about TH started. But no other brand I know of seems to garner these types of haters.
 
Hubert
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Ara Ara
The level of Longines rise totally shocked me.
I thought the same thing!
 
imagwai
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Hubert Hubert
And deliberately under-producing to keep demand up.
Under-producing makes it sound like they've cut production. It isn't the same thing as simply not being able to keep up with demand. They're obviously selling a lot of watches! Just that they've consciously decided to not scale up their factories and staff to meet the increased demand as it represents a risk to their business (they don't want to scale up production, then have demand fall, and the current situation is obviously working for them!).
 
Hubert
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imagwai imagwai
Under-producing makes it sound like they've cut production. It isn't the same thing as simply not being able to keep up with demand. They're obviously selling a lot of watches! Just that they've consciously decided to not scale up their factories and staff to meet the increased demand as it represents a risk to their business (they don't want to scale up production, then have demand fall, and the current situation is obviously working for them!).
What I meant by "under-producing" is that Rolex could re-purpose some of their other-lines to try to satisfy demand for their coveted models. However, they seem to do this as a strategic move, to maintain deliberate scarcity on these models, which in-turn results in manufactured-exclusivity. Sales for their less-desirable models are likely to benefit from this strategy, as many buyers will settle for other models to avoid the aftermarket and markups.
 
Calibre11
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It's a really interesting set of numbers:
- Agree with the surprise on Longines- who knew?
- I did know that Cartier was very large, but it still shocks me to see the volume they sell. Wonder if it is mainly in Asia?
- AP growth is fantastic, given they really only sell one model!
- Chopard higher revenue than Breitling?

And I agree that the TAG Heuer numbers are disappointing if true. When Biver arrived he did cut prices significantly and introduce more quartz watches, but it's pretty obvious that the lower prices did not drive volume growth. Remember that way back in 2006 we had only just seen the first modern TAG Heuer Carrera (2005).

The person posting these used to work in Business Intelligence at both TAG Heuer and within LVMH, so while they may not be 100% right, I think they will be fairly accurate
 
Mspeedster
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Makes me wonder what should be the right direction for TAG Heuer to achieve higher levels of growth.

I don't follow Cartier or Longines at all, but they must have done something right.

I do follow Omega. I believe staying true to their heritage and marketing the heck out of their connection with NASA and Bond has served them well. Rolex is a unique beast, but they also stay very true to their heritage. Which I believe is a big part of their appeal.

TH has as strong a heritage as Rolex or Omega. But they dilute their heritage. For example, the Carrera line is just all over the place. From being a Connected watch, to skeleton designs, to more conventional designs and to the heritage pieces (which are quite lacking these days). Even the Monaco has a "TAG Heuer" version and a "Heuer" version, as does the Autavia now too.

Perhaps TH would do better if they simplified their line up and built up stronger desirability for their higher end (playing on their heritage), and clearly carved out a mid-range and lower end to their product line up.
Maybe something like this:
- Position "Heuer" heritage models at the top: Monaco, Carrera, and Autavia etc. Heuer logo only. (Which might help counter the negativity towards "TAG")
- Mid-range models carry the TAG Heuer logo: Aquaracer, Link etc. And create new names for other new Avant Garde models, rather than branding them as a Carrera or Autavia.
- Low end models branded TAG Heuer, quartz only: F1 etc.
In a sense, this would create a Lexus line and a Toyota line for TAG Heuer.
 
Hubert
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^ I remember similar thoughts were discussed in older threads a few years back. I suggested something very similar.

However, I believe some voiced opinions (I believe @Aquagraph among them) who stated that the brand should not market Heuer models as the top tier, over TAG Heuer counterparts. As this would put Heuer > TAG Heuer.
 
imagwai
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Hubert Hubert
What I meant by "under-producing" is that Rolex could re-purpose some of their other-lines to try to satisfy demand for their coveted models. However, they seem to do this as a strategic move, to maintain deliberate scarcity on these models, which in-turn results in manufactured-exclusivity. Sales for their less-desirable models are likely to benefit from this strategy, as many buyers will settle for other models to avoid the aftermarket and markups.
Agreed, but why cut lines for models that produce greater profit margins. They're obviously doing something right looking at these numbers. I'm sure they also understand that once something becomes ubiquitous, it loses it's exclusivity.
 
Mspeedster
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Hubert Hubert
^ I remember similar thoughts were discussed in older threads a few years back. I suggested something very similar.

However, I believe some voiced opinions (I believe @Aquagraph among them) who stated that the brand should not market Heuer models as the top tier, over TAG Heuer counterparts. As this would put Heuer > TAG Heuer.

I don't want to start up another "Heuer" vs "TAG Heuer" debate. But I believe that these graphs indicate that "perceived" luxury brands have gained ground, while fashion brands have fallen. To me, TAG Heuer is both a fashion brand as well as a luxury brand. Part of their problem is they dilute their brands within their brand. If TH wants to grow, I believe they would do better by creating a demand for high end pieces by not diluting the image of "Monaco", "Carrera" or "Autavia" etc.

The quartz Monaco is a simple example. Omega has a ton of Speedmaster variants, but they would never think of creating a cheap version of the Speedmaster, let alone a quartz version. The Monaco Cal 12 and new Monaco H02 have a dial of 70s heritage design, TH could have easily branded them "Heuer" to solidify the Monaco's image.

I like TAG Heuer as much as Heuer, they are one and the same after all. But for the general public, perception is everything. Just like changing the name of the Cal 1887 movement to Heuer 01 did much to alter the perception of the movement, I think having "Heuer" cleanly positioned at the top, could help with sales against other brands in the same price range.
 
Ara
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
I think having "Heuer" cleanly positioned at the top, could help with sales against other brands in the same price range.

Best logo ever.
 
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