Morgan Stanley Top 20 Swiss Watch Brands - TAG Heuer is down again

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I might consider admitting that what you've been saying about this being a trend might actually be true
 
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Hermes and Tissot seem to be winners in 2023. And Swatch, popping up to 13 from nowhere 馃槻 is this their plastic Omega and Blancpain releases showing results in market share
 
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I might consider admitting that what you've been saying about this being a trend might actually be true
I wish I wasn't right about the trend. I hope Julien can turn things around.
Hermes and Tissot seem to be winners in 2023. And Swatch, popping up to 13 from nowhere 馃槻 is this their plastic Omega and Blancpain releases showing results in market share
For sure due to the moonSwatch. If the plastic Blancpain helped Swatch, it didn't help them, as they went from 19th to out of the top 20.
 
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Would this actually stop anyone buying a watch they fancied? Look at it this way, we are unique bucking the trend not following the sheep.馃槈
 
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ImFor sure due to the moonSwatch. If the plastic Blancpain helped Swatch, it didn't help them, as they went from 19th to out of the top 20.

This is an interesting post, thank you. Your comment here is the exact same first impression I got. Swatch join the mix at a good way up the chart, which Omega remaining in the same spot, but Blancpain tumbling out. They clearly missed the boat.

The interesting thing for me is seeing Tissot push ahead of both IWC and Tudor. I think this shows that either there鈥檚 a huge increase in new customers joining at entry level, or people who were spending more on brands like Tudor and TAG Heuer are now just picking up some of the cooler (plus cheaper) pieces that Tissot have released of late.
 
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Would this actually stop anyone buying a watch they fancied? Look at it this way, we are unique bucking the trend not following the sheep.馃槈
I agree that it probably wouldn鈥檛 stop anyone who really does want a specific piece鈥ut I definitely think it has stopped people buying something they kind of like on a whim like many of us have no doubt done in the past. I think we are all being a lot more patient in waiting for the right one to come along, before parting with our cash now. The longer that gap in time, the less we end up buying overall too.
 
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Would this actually stop anyone buying a watch they fancied? Look at it this way, we are unique bucking the trend not following the sheep.馃槈
I'm not thinking about it from a consumer's perspective. I buy many brands, cheap to expensive, where they rank has absolutely no bearing on my purchases.

But as a long time fan of TAG Heuer, I'd like to see them do well. I still contend their primary issue is they don't seem to know who they want to be. They lack focus and are all over the map.
- They want to push to be high end, with high complication movements. But not many are willing to pay their prices, given their perception as entry level luxury with Quartz and cheap Selitta.
- They want to be Avant Garde, but also want to be Heritage. The new Skeletons and new Glassbox trying to please fans of either style. But it doesn't seem like it's translated into sales growth.
- They've got the Connected, which is a different market.
- Now they're reverting back to fashion, with Eyewear and Malbon Golf accessories.

It seems like they want to be all things to all people. Which I personally don't think is a winning strategy.
 
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It seems like they want to be all things to all people. Which I personally don't think is a winning strategy.
Agree 100%. Doesn't help either that they constantly change ceo who always want to steer things in a different direction
 
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I'm not thinking about it from a consumer's perspective. I buy many brands, cheap to expensive, where they rank has absolutely no bearing on my purchases.

But as a long time fan of TAG Heuer, I'd like to see them do well. I still contend their primary issue is they don't seem to know who they want to be. They lack focus and are all over the map.
- They want to push to be high end, with high complication movements. But not many are willing to pay their prices, given their perception as entry level luxury with Quartz and cheap Selitta.
- They want to be Avant Garde, but also want to be Heritage. The new Skeletons and new Glassbox trying to please fans of either style. But it doesn't seem like it's translated into sales growth.
- They've got the Connected, which is a different market.
- Now they're reverting back to fashion, with Eyewear and Malbon Golf accessories.

It seems like they want to be all things to all people. Which I personally don't think is a winning strategy.
Yeah, when I saw the eyewear post on IG last month, I wondered if it was some sort of smart /connected type eyewear which would be tres avant garde*. Was totally wrong.

----
*I chuckle every time I see the phrase "avant garde" and think back to the 20th century with warm, fond memories
 
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Agree 100%. Doesn't help either that they constantly change ceo who always want to steer things in a different direction

Yes this isn't helping is it. Two to three years is not really a good stint, but then Frederic was simply there to learn and was never going to stay long term.
 
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I'm not thinking about it from a consumer's perspective. I buy many brands, cheap to expensive, where they rank has absolutely no bearing on my purchases.

But as a long time fan of TAG Heuer, I'd like to see them do well. I still contend their primary issue is they don't seem to know who they want to be. They lack focus and are all over the map.
- They want to push to be high end, with high complication movements. But not many are willing to pay their prices, given their perception as entry level luxury with Quartz and cheap Selitta.
- They want to be Avant Garde, but also want to be Heritage. The new Skeletons and new Glassbox trying to please fans of either style. But it doesn't seem like it's translated into sales growth.
- They've got the Connected, which is a different market.
- Now they're reverting back to fashion, with Eyewear and Malbon Golf accessories.

It seems like they want to be all things to all people. Which I personally don't think is a winning strategy.

Doesn't this suggest that they don't see any individual direction as being the right one, or adequate financially to abandon the others?
 
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Doesn't this suggest that they don't see any individual direction as being the right one, or adequate financially to abandon the others?
But there in lies the problem, it takes guts to make real change. That's where having the right CEO can make a difference.

Breitling is a good example, when Georges Kern took over he made dramatic change to really focus on Heritage. Many who loved the pre-Kern Breitling were not happy. His decision to adopt the old heritage B logo, instead of the Wings logo, was unpopular. But just look at the results, they've gone from 19th to 9th under his leadership.
 
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But there in lies the problem, it takes guts to make real change. That's where having the right CEO can make a difference.

Breitling is a good example, when Georges Kern took over he made dramatic change to really focus on Heritage. Many who loved the pre-Kern Breitling were not happy. His decision to adopt the old heritage B logo, instead of the Wings logo, was unpopular. But just look at the results, they've gone from 19th to 9th under his leadership.
Yep. They became cool again.
 
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This is an interesting post, thank you. Your comment here is the exact same first impression I got. Swatch join the mix at a good way up the chart, which Omega remaining in the same spot, but Blancpain tumbling out. They clearly missed the boat.

The interesting thing for me is seeing Tissot push ahead of both IWC and Tudor. I think this shows that either there鈥檚 a huge increase in new customers joining at entry level, or people who were spending more on brands like Tudor and TAG Heuer are now just picking up some of the cooler (plus cheaper) pieces that Tissot have released of late.

think the PRX has been a huge hit with those youngsters which has probably pushed Tissot up.
 
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think the PRX has been a huge hit with those youngsters which has probably pushed Tissot up.
Absolutely. Not just the youngsters. I really like it myself. Just trying to be good presently, even though I have seen the Ice Blue on sale.

I also think the Sideral is cool too, which is also on sale.
 
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But there in lies the problem, it takes guts to make real change. That's where having the right CEO can make a difference.

Breitling is a good example, when Georges Kern took over he made dramatic change to really focus on Heritage. Many who loved the pre-Kern Breitling were not happy. His decision to adopt the old heritage B logo, instead of the Wings logo, was unpopular. But just look at the results, they've gone from 19th to 9th under his leadership.

True, but I don't think it's as simple as copying what they did... because they didn't have entry level customers like TH does. Maybe LVMH could give a five year plan, but does it make more sense to revert to JCBs philosophy of affordable luxury and knock the 10 grand Monacos on the head?
 
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The idea of everyone going upmarket is fine until you have a recession and people start thinking about their spending. I think the Swiss brands convinced themselves they were invincible because the pandemic increased their business, but I wonder now if all these fancy new boutiques they've opened are tenable?
 
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Plus there's no point being high on the list if I can't afford to buy anything or it's all heritage stuff I don't want to buy.
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