Monaco CAW211P sourcing options

Helidoc · Jan 9, 2025

Hello

I’m Dave, often found on TZ-UK and I appear to have had a (dormant) account here since 2017.

If it isn’t a terrible breach of forum etiquette, might I have some pricing wisdom?

I have this longstanding desire for a Cal 11 Monaco, and deeply regret not buying when the grey price in the UK was £3500. The current RRP of £7050 is spicy to say the least, but dependable grey suppliers in the UK, essentially middlemen between the AD and me are about £5600. I’m aware of an unused 2023 watch with 12 months warranty to run at £5000 in a used dealer. If I get buyers remorse I doubt I would see £4K from selling either privately or to trade. An instant £1000-1500 loss doesn’t appeal, but then nothing looks like it, and I’m going to have to scratch the itch. When I start researching it only ever seems to end up with a purchase.

Can I assume the ADs, which around me seem to be boutiques, won’t get near the £20% of the better grey dealers? Do you think the above pricing is about right?

Cheers

Dave

BillC3 · Jan 9, 2025

Have you looked on Chrono24? I did a quick search for CAW211P, and found 128 listings. There are 61 listings that are new or like-new.

ExpiredWatchdog · Jan 9, 2025

The real irony is that the destro models (Cal 11) use an SW300 and a bespoke module. While it's no dog, I don't see an SW300 as a "High Luxury" movement, module or no.

For that price (now listing at $8100) I expect a REAL Cal 11.

Aquagraph · Jan 10, 2025

Why not let someone else take the depreciation? And judging by these prices you are right, there's no way you will get £4000 selling to the trade.

Aquagraph · Jan 10, 2025

I mean... the 'HORRENDOUS' depreciation.

flawless · Jan 10, 2025

I'm down in Brighton, and can probably get you one (used but should be very little wear, B&P) under £4000 - let me know if you're interested, and I'll get some pictures.

Helidoc · Jan 10, 2025

ExpiredWatchdog
The real irony is that the destro models (Cal 11) use an SW300 and a bespoke module. While it's no dog, I don't see an SW300 as a "High Luxury" movement, module or no.

For that price (now listing at $8100) I expect a REAL Cal 11.

My inner watch snob was one reason I avoided it, to my cost, the true Call 11 had a DD module, so I suppose the current version is similar in that respect.

Dave

Helidoc · Jan 10, 2025

Aquagraph
I mean... the 'HORRENDOUS' depreciation.

Of course it’s only depreciation if you sell it! There is an enormous imbalance between what TH thinks they are worth and the market. I see Kibble watches have a 2016 for £3750 which is a bit more like it, but it will need a service soon.

Helidoc · Jan 10, 2025

flawless
I'm down in Brighton, and can probably get you one (used but should be very little wear, B&P) under £4000 - let me know if you're interested, and I'll get some pictures.

Thanks for the suggestion. I’m still at the contemplative stage, although in my experience, once I’ve entered this stage I know how it goes.

D

HeuerLondon88 · Jan 10, 2025

Literally had mine posted on here for £3,500 on the marketplace! No interest in it, but ended up selling at the end of last week for bang on £3k!

McBeardy · Jan 10, 2025

Helidoc
Hello

I’m Dave, often found on TZ-UK and I appear to have had a (dormant) account here since 2017.

If it isn’t a terrible breach of forum etiquette, might I have some pricing wisdom?

I have this longstanding desire for a Cal 11 Monaco, and deeply regret not buying when the grey price in the UK was £3500. The current RRP of £7050 is spicy to say the least, but dependable grey suppliers in the UK, essentially middlemen between the AD and me are about £5600. I’m aware of an unused 2023 watch with 12 months warranty to run at £5000 in a used dealer. If I get buyers remorse I doubt I would see £4K from selling either privately or to trade. An instant £1000-1500 loss doesn’t appeal, but then nothing looks like it, and I’m going to have to scratch the itch. When I start researching it only ever seems to end up with a purchase.

Can I assume the ADs, which around me seem to be boutiques, won’t get near the £20% of the better grey dealers? Do you think the above pricing is about right?

Cheers

Dave

Hi Dave,

I recognise you from TZ. Shame you didn’t want one last year. Mine was 7-8m old and sold for around the £3.8 mark. But that’s another story.

Pleasance & Harper offer 12% off (sign up for their newsletter), would be brand new etc. appreciate £6k still a high figure for what is a modular Sellita movement. (But as you know in the hobby nothing beats the real deal when you want one).

My local AD would only offer 5% off new (but this was prior to a few price rises & I got 2 extra straps also).

Phone some independents I reckon you could get close to 15% off especially January and towards the end of the month.

Good luck Brad

Helidoc · Jan 10, 2025

Hey Brad

I do remember your watch, and losing the love after wanting it for so long. Swiss Watches Direct are a straight 20% off and having asked, their suppliers are in Europe.

D

Aquagraph · Jan 10, 2025

Helidoc
Hey Brad

I do remember your watch, and losing the love after wanting it for so long. Swiss Watches Direct are a straight 20% off and having asked, their suppliers are in Europe.

D

I have heard directly from a boutique that watches supplied by that company have been returned unrepaired when sent to TAG for repair.

McBeardy · Jan 10, 2025

Aquagraph
I have heard directly from a boutique that watches supplied by that company have been returned unrepaired when sent to TAG for repair.

Odd I’ve never heard of any issues with them & always thought a trusted grey dealer.

Delivery time show roughly a week so I presume they source the watch elsewhere.

Aquagraph · Jan 10, 2025

I haven't dealt with them myself but I was told that more than one watch came back that was originally sold by them. Here's my issues with a grey seller... say the Monaco is real, maybe they would source it from Europe (I bought my H01 from a similar place that was sourced in Italy) but I think the issue is do you trust them not to bite when someone 'offers' them the chance to buy 20 quartz F1s... at a really good price.

Aquagraph · Jan 10, 2025

I would imagine it's safer (if not 100% safe) to go grey market if the watch is really recent, like my H01 was. It's probably no surprise that these common fakes are the entry level F1s that have been around for years and years.

Have you noticed how every pre-owned site you go to now has the same F1s over and over, the grey anthracite dial with the red batons and the grey dials with the lime green or orange markers? 🤔

Helidoc · Jan 10, 2025

McBeardy
Odd I’ve never heard of any issues with them & always thought a trusted grey dealer.

Delivery time show roughly a week so I presume they source the watch elsewhere.

I would regard them as trustworthy. They have been around a long time, and the warranty should be able to be extended by 3yrs after purchase

Aquagraph · Jan 10, 2025

Up to you. I can only recount what I was told directly by a TH staff member. They mentioned two names and SWD was one of them.

They were not happy having to ring people and tell them that they had bought a fake watch...

Helidoc · Jan 10, 2025

Aquagraph
Up to you. I can only recount what I was told directly by a TH staff member. They mentioned two names and SWD was one of them.

They were not happy having to ring people and tell them that they had bought a fake watch...

Thank you. Knowledge is power

D

ExpiredWatchdog · Jan 10, 2025

Helidoc
My inner watch snob was one reason I avoided it, to my cost, the true Call 11 had a DD module, so I suppose the current version is similar in that respect.

Dave

I'd never considered the original Cal 11 to be modular for a few reasons. A modular chrono mechanism fits on the front of the movement (bottom in watchmaker's parlance) and is driven by the movement's seconds wheel staff. The Omega Cal 3220 (Speedy Reduced) and ETA 2894-2 (my Link Chrono) are examples.

Looking at some history and diagrams of the original Cal 11, it does in fact have a separate mechanism, designed and produced by Dubois Depraz specifically for the Cal 11. But it fits on the back of the movement and the movement itself is designed to allow all hand staffs to pass through it from the chrono mechanism.

The mechanism is driven by a staff similar to the "oscillating pinion" of Edmund Capt/Valjoux fame which is driven similar to an indirect seconds movement where it connects with the fourth wheel.

I've always considered a "module" to be something that interfaces with an otherwise complete movement that is capable of driving hour, minute and seconds hands without the need for anything else. The Cal 11 certainly doesn't fit into that case as the movement portion has no motion works that would otherwise drive the hour and minute hands.

I did skim the original agreement https://monochrome-watches.com/calibre-11-history-iconic-movement-and-its-evolution-in-depth/ and saw plenty of references to "mécanisme" and none to "module" which translates letter to letter. Interesting that it was called Calibre 111 in that document.

But, your mileage may vary.

For shits & giggles, here's the schematic for the DD module in the Omega:

35.060R is a gear pressed onto the seconds staff
31.083.05 is a gear pressed onto the minutes staff
Running seconds is at the bottom, Running hours and minutes are at the top
Chrono hands are along the horizontal row, from seconds to hours

Monaco CAW211P sourcing options

Helidoc

BillC3

ExpiredWatchdog

Aquagraph

Aquagraph

flawless

Helidoc

Helidoc

Helidoc

HeuerLondon88

McBeardy

Helidoc

Aquagraph

McBeardy

Aquagraph

Aquagraph

Helidoc

Aquagraph

Helidoc

ExpiredWatchdog

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