Heuer 160th Anniversary/ Carrera 160 Years Silver Edition CBK221B

Aquagraph
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abrod520 abrod520
Wearing a mechanical wristwatch at all is itself a retro thing - if we were all truly trying to wear the newest most modern watches, we'd all be wearing smartwatches, wouldn't you think? So I think there's a certain amount of nostalgia and history / tradition inherent in all mechanical watches, and it seems like the industry is starting to recognize that in the face of cheaper more capable competition from smartwatches. It's very similar to what happened with some of the larger brands that survived the quartz crisis - no longer the standards for timekeeping, they focused on design and tradition.

Yes there's probably some truth in that, it worked once so why not again.

abrod520 abrod520
As for "recycling" Carreras.... take a look at TAG's releases since the Carrera was first restored as a line in 1996. I don't think anyone would argue that they have been mostly contemporary, trendy models. The last few years have been nothing but skeletonized monstrosities. One or two or even 10 variants of a classicly-styled Carrera (or even reserving that name for vintage-type watches) doesn't portend that the entire TAG product catalog will be going in that direction.

No, but TAG are actually a little unusual in this regard... I wasn't really talking about TAG Heuer so much as the whole industry, surely you cannot fail to have noticed that at least 50% of the watch releases of the last few years have either been re-issues or anniversary pieces or slightly modernized versions of watches that have been around forever. How many genuinely new watches have there been in the last five years from the major companies, really? And of those how many are contrived attempts to ape the Royal Oak?

abrod520 abrod520
As for Hollywood - yeah it does suck what's going on with the endless reboots... but then, people watch them and they make tons of money, so I guess there's an argument to be made for them somewhere?

Hollywood is a business, just like the watch industry after all. Both are mistakenly thought of as art forms first and industry second... and both know it's easier to sell something to people they know they already like.
 
Mr_Orange
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Aquagraph Aquagraph
CBK2112.BA0715.JPG

Here's a Carrera that is neither modern nor overtly retro, it also looks very nice IRL.

It does because it maintains the original design elements that Jack Heuer envisaged for the Carrera: clean, legible. The mutant carreras (deliberate small 'c') achieve none of those elements.
 
Mspeedster
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I feel there's a difference between re-editions & retro homage watches compared to new modern designs with a classic feel. This 160th Silver LE definitely falls into the re-edition/homage category.

OTOH, Iike the new Autavia Cal 5, I feel something like the Carrera Cal 1887 watches represent what I'd call a new design with a classic feel. Although the 1887 Carreras were released 10 years ago, they still look good now and probably will long into the future. I believe this is what the author may have been trying to get at. Or at least for me, I'd prefer to see more new designs with clean classic lines vs. skeleton designs or Alec Monopoly craziness.
Tag_Heuer_CARRERA_Cal1887_seduction.jpg
 
Ara
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Aquagraph Aquagraph
CBK2112.BA0715.JPG

Here's a Carrera that is neither modern nor overtly retro, it also looks very nice IRL.
Twins
 
632B6E62-C2FD-4174-87EF-E3F521C5B952.jpeg
OttoWilliam
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The small second subdial is on different position though

#onlywatchnerdwillnotice 😁
 
Mr_Orange
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OttoWilliam OttoWilliam
The small second subdial is on different position though

#onlywatchnerdwillnotice 😁

Well, so is the date for that matter, but you get the idea.
 
Yago
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Copying the past is never a good idea imo. Do 1:1 re-issues have a chance of becoming classics themselves? It’s probably rare but there are good examples, like the 1996 Carrera re-issues. But you can’t build your brand on watches like that alone. Some classics have been in continues production to some extent, like the Speedy, which has evolved from being a very large watch in it’s day to a classic sized watch today. For some reason Omega get’s away with reaching to the past continuously but I don’t expect many modern Speedies will be collectible in 20 years, even the LE over the top expensive re-issues. Just my opinion.
The 36mm size of the original Carrera blocks it from being relevant today in it’s historic form. But the iconic case, lugs and dials of the originals are very relevant today. Just like the datejust has evolved from 36mm to 39 and 41mm, with tweaks to dial and case finishes, why wouldn’t the Carrera be allowed to endure it’s classic status? I hope the new Carrera , an excellent contemporary interpretation imo, endures. The issue with Tag Heuer is the marriage between Heuer and the avant garde of Tag Heuer.
who knows, in 40 years collectors might be all over the skeletonized Carrera’s.
 
Aquagraph
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
I feel there's a difference between re-editions & retro homage watches compared to new modern designs with a classic feel. This 160th Silver LE definitely falls into the re-edition/homage category.

OTOH, Iike the new Autavia Cal 5, I feel something like the Carrera Cal 1887 watches represent what I'd call a new design with a classic feel. Although the 1887 Carreras were released 10 years ago, they still look good now and probably will long into the future. I believe this is what the author may have been trying to get at. Or at least for me, I'd prefer to see more new designs with clean classic lines vs. skeleton designs or Alec Monopoly craziness.
Tag_Heuer_CARRERA_Cal1887_seduction.jpg

Yes, I agree, this is something that is modern, but understated and feels 'classic'. It looks like a modernization of a retro classic but it actually isn't.
 
Aquagraph
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Mr_Orange Mr_Orange
It does because it maintains the original design elements that Jack Heuer envisaged for the Carrera: clean, legible. The mutant carreras (deliberate small 'c') achieve none of those elements.

So what about the no-skeleton mutant Carreras? Dial wise they look not unlike some other Carreras in the range, are they equally awful?
 
Mr_Orange
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Aquagraph Aquagraph
So what about the no-skeleton mutant Carreras? Dial wise they look not unlike some other Carreras in the range, are they equally awful?

Not as bad, but their proportions are all out. They still have the Mickey Mouse sized bezel and they look a bit 'My First Watch Design'.
 
Aquagraph
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Yago Yago
Copying the past is never a good idea imo. Do 1:1 re-issues have a chance of becoming classics themselves? It’s probably rare but there are good examples, like the 1996 Carrera re-issues. But you can’t build your brand on watches like that alone. Some classics have been in continues production to some extent, like the Speedy, which has evolved from being a very large watch in it’s day to a classic sized watch today. For some reason Omega get’s away with reaching to the past continuously but I don’t expect many modern Speedies will be collectible in 20 years, even the LE over the top expensive re-issues. Just my opinion.
The 36mm size of the original Carrera blocks it from being relevant today in it’s historic form. But the iconic case, lugs and dials of the originals are very relevant today. Just like the datejust has evolved from 36mm to 39 and 41mm, with tweaks to dial and case finishes, why wouldn’t the Carrera be allowed to endure it’s classic status? I hope the new Carrera , an excellent contemporary interpretation imo, endures. The issue with Tag Heuer is the marriage between Heuer and the avant garde of Tag Heuer.
who knows, in 40 years collectors might be all over the skeletonized Carrera’s.

I actually think the original Heuer 01 has future classic written all over it.
 
abrod520
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Mmm, to me that is retro, and I would say it is generally thought of as retro too.

There were retro touches with the first release, mainly in using the vintage rose logo and the curved text on the dial. But those were replaced by a fully modern design when they switched to the in-house movement - I'd say it's understated in a classic way rather than retro.

Aquagraph Aquagraph
As I said, I do not know much about Omega because it is a brand that doesn't appeal to me. I only singled that model out because it is one that I have seen and it is kind of like the Grand Seiko you suggested.

What about the other Seamaster divers? The Planet Ocean, the 300M range. The 300M was a new design for the '90s that incorporated a couple nods to its forebearers but is a thoroughly modern design.

Aquagraph Aquagraph
Yes and here we can agree. Like the 'modular' Carrera, wouldn't it have been better to give it a brand new model name? That way it would also be free from 'baggage' and they could have gone anywhere with it, but no, again everything in the watch industry must be tied to 'history' to give it a sheen of credibility.

There are two things here - one, is that maybe they weren't very confident in their design? So they put the vaunted Carrera name on it to gain a bit extra recognition?
And two, well again the whole mechanical watch industry is really about history, so you can't really blame them. In fact, any new designs owe their existence the continued success of that history.

Aquagraph Aquagraph
No, but TAG are actually a little unusual in this regard... I wasn't really talking about TAG Heuer so much as the whole industry, surely you cannot fail to have noticed that at least 50% of the watch releases of the last few years have either been re-issues or anniversary pieces or slightly modernized versions of watches that have been around forever. How many genuinely new watches have there been in the last five years from the major companies, really?

Way more modern designs have been released - it's just that the historic models get most of the attention. In the example of Tudor for instance, take a look at their catalog outside of the Black Bay range. Or look at Longines' catalog outside of the handful of historic editions. The classics get people excited, because that's what got many of them into wearing a mechanical wristwatch in the first place.

Aquagraph Aquagraph
And of those how many are contrived attempts to ape the Royal Oak?

This is a real problem and I don't like it either. TAG's done it too with the bezel on the latest Aquaracer designs. But again it comes down to business - dealers and brand boutiques can't keep Royal Oaks or Nautilus/Aquanauts in stock, so the others see an opportunity. They mostly come from listless, inconsequential brands like Piaget anyway though so for me it's easy to ignore.

Aquagraph Aquagraph
it's easier to sell something to people they know they already like

And while most of the time that leaves us with hackneyed garbage, sometimes the updates are pretty good. The 1990s version of "The Last of the Mohicans" was a remake; I also thought that the recent remake of "Murder on the Orient Express" was pretty great. In those cases, they're updating seminal works with modern technology and new spins or touches. On the other hand, what Disney is doing with Marvel and Star Wars isn't art at all, in my opinion - those are pumped out as quickly as possible in order to make as much money as they can, often without regard to quality at all.

What I'm saying is when done with true care and reverence for the original, a watch reedition (or movie remake) ends up being a fitting introduction of a classic to a new generation, and in my opinion that's a good thing.
 
Aquagraph
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abrod520 abrod520
What about the other Seamaster divers? The Planet Ocean, the 300M range. The 300M was a new design for the '90s that incorporated a couple nods to its forebearers but is a thoroughly modern design.

As I say I'm not particulary au fait with the Omega range. Have they brought out any 'new' watches in the last ten years? When I say new I mean like the Skydweller was a new watch for Rolex in 2012. I do quite like some of the Planet Ocean watches, but the prices are pretty up there for my pocket.

abrod520 abrod520
There are two things here - one, is that maybe they weren't very confident in their design? So they put the vaunted Carrera name on it to gain a bit extra recognition? And two, well again the whole mechanical watch industry is really about history, so you can't really blame them. In fact, any new designs owe their existence the continued success of that history.

Yes and this goes back to what I said about nobody wants to do anything genuinely new because it's risky. Oh we made a brand new design, but don't worry it's a Carrera! I'd love to see a return to the days when brands came up with a new watch model and ran with it, if it sticks around for ten-fifteen years and then gets replaced, what's wrong with that? But now they are so caught up in 'history' that they try and shoehorn everything into the 'story' whether it fits or not.

abrod520 abrod520
Way more modern designs have been released - it's just that the historic models get most of the attention. In the example of Tudor for instance, take a look at their catalog outside of the Black Bay range. Or look at Longines' catalog outside of the handful of historic editions. The classics get people excited, because that's what got many of them into wearing a mechanical wristwatch in the first place.

This is a good point, but it just feeds the whole problem doesn't it. The press are only interested in writing about the designs they already know because they know they will get way more views if they review the new Monaco with a slightly different dial than a brand new model. Thus people are fed the same old models and stories and the demand is created for those models. Some Formula 1 and Aquaracer models are still creeping out without a word being said about them, but you won't get a Monaco coming out without a big fanfare.

Also, social media is so quick to jump on something new and point and laugh and say 'they've fallen on their face' (see Audemars Piguet of recent times), rather than something taking time to get about and people get used to it. People don't want to 'get used' to things these days, they want what they already like so you can't blame the companies for giving them what they like. But this is a dead end, what if this had happened in 1940, we'd never have had the Monaco or the Carrera and we'll all be walking around with watches with Roman numerals on the dial.

abrod520 abrod520
This is a real problem and I don't like it either. TAG's done it too with the bezel on the latest Aquaracer designs. But again it comes down to business - dealers and brand boutiques can't keep Royal Oaks or Nautilus/Aquanauts in stock, so the others see an opportunity. They mostly come from listless, inconsequential brands like Piaget anyway though so for me it's easy to ignore.

I don't mind so much the Aquaracer because it's still fairly subtle in comparison to a lot of these latest pieces coming out like the 'St Moritz', but if they start putting screws in the bezel then it may be time to call bulls**t.

abrod520 abrod520
And while most of the time that leaves us with hackneyed garbage, sometimes the updates are pretty good. The 1990s version of "The Last of the Mohicans" was a remake; I also thought that the recent remake of "Murder on the Orient Express" was pretty great. In those cases, they're updating seminal works with modern technology and new spins or touches. On the other hand, what Disney is doing with Marvel and Star Wars isn't art at all, in my opinion - those are pumped out as quickly as possible in order to make as much money as they can, often without regard to quality at all. What I'm saying is when done with true care and reverence for the original, a watch reedition (or movie remake) ends up being a fitting introduction of a classic to a new generation, and in my opinion that's a good thing.

Yes, can be... sometimes you see a film and you don't even realise that it's a remake. I watch a lot of old films from the 40s and 50s and some of those are remakes of films made in the 20s and 30s.

In the case of the CBK211B I would say it is a good thing (even though it doesn't appeal to me personally) because it's made it a more wearable size for people now. And again, even though I'm not a fan, I have to say it looks better in the photographs than the render suggested it would.
 
C
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Clearly there will be a panda version at some point and that will be in demand, would love to see an all black version like the CS3111.

Would like to see the modern ones use this case, give us an option of 39mm in the modern Carrera chronographs (without the domed glass).

39mm 3-hander version could do with a slight re-jig too.
 
Hubert
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C cwsbbb
Clearly there will be a panda version at some point and that will be in demand, would love to see an all black version like the CS3111.

Would like to see the modern ones use this case, give us an option of 39mm in the modern Carrera chronographs (without the domed glass).

39mm 3-hander version could do with a slight re-jig too.
Or a 41mm without the glassbox domed crystal.
 
Mspeedster
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Hubert Hubert
PSA: Pre-orders with ADs and Boutiques are now open. I pre-ordered mine already.
Congrats! Did you need to put down a deposit? If so, was the full amount required?
 
imagwai
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Mspeedster Mspeedster
Congrats! Did you need to put down a deposit? If so, was the full amount required?
I've been told it'll like be a refundable deposit, not full amount, although they weren't able to take it yet. Hopefully next week.
 
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