Autavia vs Black Bay Chronograph

thingziliketoo · Aug 21, 2021

I know I may get biased opinions here but what are your thoughts? I also posted on Watchuseek

Why does the Tudor Black Bay Chronograph get loads of praise and the Tag Heuer Autavia doesn’t get the same appreciation in the watch community. I understand that some may not appreciate some designs of Tag Heuer’s past but have you seen some of Tudor’s as well in the 80’s - 00’s.

Both are column wheel chronographs with vertical clutches, excellent power reserves, similar sized stainless steel watches with aluminium bezels. The Tudor is COSC certified and carries a premium, the Autavia I own is within COSC and doesn’t carry a premium. We all know a discount can be negotiated.

I think the Tudor gets a bit of excessive praise just because of the association with Rolex and maybe the scarcity. Why does it’s slab side, blocky snowflake hands and awkward date get overlooked.

I know it’s just my opinion but the case, bracelet, integrated date and overall design of the Autavia so much more interesting and appealing.

I know I am biased but I am baffled why this watch and Tag aren’t getting more praise these days.

Photos for comparison courtesy of Monochrome and Calibre11

kappa_md · Aug 22, 2021

I can’t speak for the Tudor Black Bay but one thing I’ve learned all through these years is that the Heuer Autavia or TAG Heuer’s Re-editions will only resonate more to people inclined to motorsport history. And probably only a fraction of watch enthusiasts are truly motorsport fans. If you don’t know a bit of the watch’s heritage and look at the design only per se, you might really fall for the other brand.

Now if you look into the pedigree of the Autavia, it has one of the richest storyline in the golden age of motorsports, probably even more than the Carrera and the Monaco, with the black dial affectionately called “Rindt Autavia” (after F1’s only post humous champion). Autavias are watches “worn by legends” and it is the true racer’s chronograph. In modern times, it is also the most voted design in the “Autavia Cup” back in 2017. The JH85 Autavia, on the other hand, is a re-release of an earlier compressor design quite rare in the lates 60s. Initially I thought it was a unique design by JH but after doing research, it was a take on a silver Autavia which were not often seen during those times. Hope this helps 👍

dtf · Aug 22, 2021

Because the autavia is a motorsports chrono with a dive bezel?

imagwai · Aug 22, 2021

Possibly a lot of people who buy the Tudor are looking for a Rolex Daytona substitute but either can't afford one grey, or aren't able to get one at an AD?

Pitfitter446 · Aug 22, 2021

Autavia looks neater and better balanced, Tudor pushers look clunky and industrial compared to TAG, I wonder how the hands on the Autavia would look swopped over, ie black hands on white dial and vis versa, would they stand out clearer or just look wrong?

Jim Dollares · Aug 22, 2021

I think its very simple, Tudor has been put on the instagram/hodinky/watch forums hype train. Doesn't matter what they release, all "true watch enthusiasts" shall love it because it is Tudor.

imagwai · Aug 22, 2021

Jim Dollares
I think its very simple, Tudor has been put on the instagram/hodinky/watch forums hype train. Doesn't matter what they release, all "true watch enthusiasts" shall love it because it is Tudor.

Conversely, TAG just isn't popular with watch enthusiasts. A lot did like the Autavia when released, but probably not a lot bought one because it was a TAG.

Jim Dollares · Aug 22, 2021

imagwai
Conversely, TAG just isn't popular with watch enthusiasts. A lot did like the Autavia when released, but probably not a lot bought one because it was a TAG.

Yes. Many liked it but all came crying because it was "too big and thick" and didn't look like a 100% remake of the original.

Its hard for me not to be bias, TAG might happen to probably be my favourite brand. But, regarding the Tudor I think the subdials look freakingly small, the screwdown pushers me not like, the bracelet is far from as sexy as the TAG rice one and the thing with the snowflake hour hand covering the a looot of the subdials when passing them. Plus I don't like brushed surfaces of the Tudor as much as the polished ones on the Autavia, in general I prefer polished cases on most watches.

Last but not least, Dominator obviously bought the best of them all. The perfect silver dial is so much better than the bland Tudor dials.

Aquagraph · Aug 22, 2021

Unlike all of you guys, I've never been taken with the beads of rice bracelet, but it looks a million times better than the Tudor bracelet which is lumpen and awful in so many ways. And the Autavia just looks so much nicer, whereas the Tudor just looks like a Daytona with a shovel for an hour hand. But then the only Tudor I like at all is the Pelagos.

thingziliketoo · Aug 22, 2021

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and information on this. Tag outsell Tudor so I take that as a current win for them, I just would like to have them get a bit more respect in the community. Maybe the new athletes and Porsche relationships will help, time will tell.
I think I could have missed out on many cool watches had I listened to the internet. I will continue to do my part to help change people’s opinions. This forum has been a good place for open discussion and encouragement along the way helping to solidify my appreciation of the brand.

imagwai · Aug 22, 2021

Jim Dollares
Yes. Many liked it but all came crying because it was "too big and thick" and didn't look like a 100% remake of the original.

I have to confess, I was very disappointed with the size and heft of the Autavia release. I'd been a part of voting for the model, and been led to believe we were going to get something much more in keeping with the original in terms of size. I mean the whole campaign around it was aimed at vintage watch enthusiasts and we were voting for which model we'd like to see recreated. I didn't want a 100% clone, just something more in keeping with what we voted for. Who knows, maybe they gained sales by making it bigger, but it certainly alienated some of the market they were trying to capture.

Jim Dollares · Aug 22, 2021

imagwai
I have to confess, I was very disappointed with the size and heft of the Autavia release. I'd been a part of voting for the model, and been led to believe we were going to get something much more in keeping with the original in terms of size. I mean the whole campaign around it was aimed at vintage watch enthusiasts and we were voting for which model we'd like to see recreated. I didn't want a 100% clone, just something more in keeping with what we voted for. Who knows, maybe they gained sales by making it bigger, but it certainly alienated some of the market they were trying to capture.

Yes I know and I actually believe these would've sold faster if the sizes would've been smaller. Like you say, they were targeted towards a vintage loving audience that everyone knows appreciates smaller sizes. But still, it sometimes feels like no matter how good TAG does the "core nerd vintage fans" have a ton to complain about.

Jim Dollares · Aug 22, 2021

thingziliketoo
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and information on this. Tag outsell Tudor so I take that as a current win for them, I just would like to have them get a bit more respect in the community. Maybe the new athletes and Porsche relationships will help, time will tell.
I think I could have missed out on many cool watches had I listened to the internet. I will continue to do my part to help change people’s opinions. This forum has been a good place for open discussion and encouragement along the way helping to solidify my appreciation of the brand.

Yup the forums and instagram bubble can often steer us towards specific brands and watches. But still for me, living in the Swedish countryside, without the Internet I probably would've just owned and admired Breitling, Longines, Tissot and Certina i.e basically the only decent brands that have been offered locally here during the years.

I doubt that TAG will ever be fully "accepted" in the community, I think the brand is too mainstream and sell too many watches.

imagwai · Aug 22, 2021

Jim Dollares
Yes I know and I actually believe these would've sold faster if the sizes would've been smaller. Like you say, they were targeted towards a vintage loving audience that everyone knows appreciates smaller sizes. But still, it sometimes feels like no matter how good TAG does the "core nerd vintage fans" have a ton to complain about.

TAG have got one vintage 100% reissue spot on that most enthusiasts agree about. The original reissue Carreras from 1996. That was a true "reissue". Well alright, it's only 99% perfect. They forgot to put the word "Carrera" on the dial 🤦

Jim Dollares · Aug 22, 2021

imagwai
TAG have got one vintage 100% reissue spot on that most enthusiasts agree about. The original reissue Carreras from 1996. That was a true "reissue". Well alright, it's only 99% perfect. They forgot to put the word "Carrera" on the dial 🤦

Ah yes you are right the 1996 reissue is loved by most, myself included. But I am glad the glassbox models are 39.

Out of curiosity, would you prefer 36 for the glassbox models?

imagwai · Aug 22, 2021

Jim Dollares
Ah yes you are right the 1996 reissue is loved by most, myself included. But I am glad the glassbox models are 39.

Out of curiosity, would you prefer 36 for the glassbox models?

36mm wouldn't work with the glassbox and automatic movement I don't think. The watch would be too thick and the proportions upset. 39mm is much better for the glassbox and a modern Carrera interpretation. Funnily enough, I don't wear the reissue as much as the Ice King because of the smaller size. It's better suited for when I want something "under the radar". I think the ideal for me would be a 39mm (panda of course) with a slightly thinner case (made possible by making a manual wind version of the Heuer 02). Or maybe even a plexi version, but TAG would never do that these days (not that they will make a manual wind either!).

thingziliketoo · Aug 22, 2021

I agree with the 39mm being a good choice. To me the added size just feels better and proportionate. I bought my wife a 36mm Datejust and although this was the watch back in the day, I find it a bit small. Both the 39mm Carrera’s I have feel just a bit more fitting on wrist. The portions of the H02 makes it a pretty versatile movement. The dial spacing looks great from 39-45mm.
It would be awesome if it were as easy as loosing the rotor and making a manual wind for the collector community. A manual wind Carrera would be pretty nifty.

Jim Dollares · Aug 22, 2021

So once again our discussions conclude in:

The glassbox Carrera is perfect.

The Ice King is better than whatever you compare it with.

Jim Dollares · Aug 22, 2021

Manual H02 would be nice by the way. Funny though, nowadays I no longer notice the rotor spin, I am used to it and feel 100% happy about watch and movement

kappa_md · Aug 22, 2021

Jim Dollares
Manual H02 would be nice by the way. Funny though, nowadays I no longer notice the rotor spin, I am used to it and feel 100% happy about watch and movement

Like cars, the engine needs some initial break-in / nice long revs etc! The more you use it, the better the engine works 😉

Probably you’ve been accustomed with the H02 too much, you forgot about the sound it makes 😁 LOL

Sound or without sound, it’s truly one of the most beautiful and immaculate time piece 🥰 ever!

Autavia vs Black Bay Chronograph

thingziliketoo

kappa_md

dtf

imagwai

Pitfitter446

Jim Dollares

imagwai

Jim Dollares

Aquagraph

thingziliketoo

imagwai

Jim Dollares

Jim Dollares

imagwai

Jim Dollares

imagwai

thingziliketoo

Jim Dollares

Jim Dollares

kappa_md

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