The Swiss scam of "Swiss made"

[Jim Dollares]

Interesting words from ABTW about the long time known fact that Chinese watches can easily pass as legally being labeled "Swiss made".

https://www.ablogtowatch.com/grindi...nted-on-a-watch-part-not-made-in-switzerland/



As always very refreshing to see ABTW as the only watch media with integrity, that dare to challenge the watch industry's nonsense and doesn't only cite and distribute marketing provided by the brands.

What I find most interesting is the part about the quality of fakes being so high thanks to Chinese manufacturers having the tools and the know how all thanks to the Swiss themselves. Aquaracer anyone?

It was a long time since I lost all respect for the "Swiss made" label and the very misleading nature of it. For me to regain any respect for it I would much prefer if the Swiss legislation would enforce that Swiss made actually meant made in Switzerland. How about ya'll?

 

[Aquagraph]

I don't honestly think there's too much that the Chinese wouldn't have figured out themselves by now. It's a huge problem because everything is getting faked now, even cheap plastic things... the whole system of business and manufacturing was kind of based on the idea that every country respected IP. But China have well and truly screwed that up.

 

[bpsmith]

When a country pegs its currency so low compared to others, there’s no wonder they can afford to fake even relatively cheaper items.

Nobody is challenging them for their production of fakes, as they’re far too afraid that China will no longer sell to us very cheaply and so we will be held over a barrel as no longer make much at all ourselves!

 

[RockBurner]

Aquagraph

I don't honestly think there's too much that the Chinese wouldn't have figured out themselves by now. It's a huge problem because everything is getting faked now, even cheap plastic things... the whole system of business and manufacturing was kind of based on the idea that every country respected IP. But China have well and truly screwed that up.

It doesn't help that everything is now made in China because their labour and production costs are artificially low.

Even when companies KNOW that the Chinese will copy their IP, they still chase the profit margins by manufacturing over there.

I was working for Cambridge Audio 30 years ago, we designed hi-fi units in London and had them made in Shenzen. The Chinese would proudly show us the knock-off units they made for their own internal markets using exactly the same circuitry as we had in our units, albeit with lower-cost components (because they still "worked"), and then CA even compounded the error by buying the knock-off units and having them re-branded for the UK market!! Utter madness.

 

[tcy148]

RockBurner

It doesn't help that everything is now made in China because their labour and production costs are artificially low.

Even when companies KNOW that the Chinese will copy their IP, they still chase the profit margins by manufacturing over there.

I was working for Cambridge Audio 30 years ago, we designed hi-fi units in London and had them made in Shenzen. The Chinese would proudly show us the knock-off units they made for their own internal markets using exactly the same circuitry as we had in our units, albeit with lower-cost components (because they still "worked"), and then CA even compounded the error by buying the knock-off units and having them re-branded for the UK market!! Utter madness.

It's not artificially low wages - Their wages are lower because China is still technically a developing country. Their production costs are still competitive now but a lot of factories have already moved or outsourced to south east Asia as the wages there are even cheaper.
It isn't China's fault that some western companies wanted to make their products at the cheapest possible price.

Even in the 70s Heuer bracelets were outsourced to a company here in Hong Kong. You will see that a lot of old Autavia bracelets were stamped made in Hong Kong on them. Still "Swiss made" though.

 

[Jim Dollares]

tcy148

bracelets were stamped made in Hong Kong on them. Still "Swiss made" though

Simply lovely

 

[bpsmith]

tcy148

It's not artificially low wages - Their wages are lower because China is still technically a developing country. Their production costs are still competitive now but a lot of factories have already moved or outsourced to south east Asia as the wages there are even cheaper.
It isn't China's fault that some western companies wanted to make their products at the cheapest possible price.

Even in the 70s Heuer bracelets were outsourced to a company here in Hong Kong. You will see that a lot of old Autavia bracelets were stamped made in Hong Kong on them. Still "Swiss made" though.

It’s not China’s fault, it’s their choice, with their deliberate pegging of currency exactly for this reason!

Edited: May 22, 2024

 

[tcy148]

bpsmith

It’s not China’s fault, it’s their choice, with their deliberate pegging of currency exactly for this reason!

Maybe, but if Western companies had other options, i.e. another country that had equally low wages and costs, equally high capacity and consistent quality of manufacturing they would have set up factories in those other countries already. There isn't an alternative. Not yet at least.

 

[bpsmith]

tcy148

Maybe, but if Western companies had other options, i.e. another country that had equally low wages and costs, equally high capacity and consistent quality of manufacturing they would have set up factories in those other countries already. There isn't an alternative. Not yet at least.

China were very clever when setting this up to control the world as far production is concerned. No doubt about it.

They didn’t always have consistency and capacity. This takes decades and that’s the clear barrier to others doing the same.

Ultimately the fault lies with the consumer for wanting ever more products and expecting them at the lowest of prices. Manufacturers and brand names in the middle are only acting on that expectation, whether we like it or not.

 

[RockBurner]

bpsmith

China were very clever when setting this up to control the world as far production is concerned. No doubt about it.

They didn’t always have consistency and capacity. This takes decades and that’s the clear barrier to others doing the same.

Ultimately the fault lies with the consumer for wanting ever more products and expecting them at the lowest of prices. Manufacturers and brand names in the middle are only acting on that expectation, whether we like it or not.

This is true - but it's also driven by the corporate need to satisfy the demand from shareholders (which these days are other corporate entities, with their own shareholders, rather than individual investors) for ever-increasing profits.

 

[Jim Dollares]

bpsmith

Ultimately the fault lies with the consumer for wanting ever more products and expecting them at the lowest of prices

In some cases yes but when we spend 5-15k on a Swiss made watch actually manufactured in china, the blame is solely to be put on the greedy owners and executives of the companies trying to maximise their profits while misleading the consumers

 

[bpsmith]

Jim Dollares

In some cases yes but when we spend 5-15k on a Swiss made watch actually manufactured in china, the blame is solely to be put on the greedy owners and executives of the companies trying to maximise their profits while misleading the consumers

Indeed. I kind of veered off path by talking about production in China generally.

I totally agree that it is very different when paying significant prices for something allegedly Swiss Made, with its suggested hand crafting, when it’s really Chinese mass produced.

 

[Rizzla36]

bpsmith

When a country pegs its currency so low compared to others, there’s no wonder they can afford to fake even relatively cheaper items.

Nobody is challenging them for their production of fakes, as they’re far too afraid that China will no longer sell to us very cheaply and so we will be held over a barrel as no longer make much at all ourselves!

I hear this complaint so much. One day they wont force their currency to be so low and we're all gonna be f****d. The reason why china produces so much fakes is because companies go to china to get stuff made. The machinary and workforce makes its way into the fake market so they can produce things so well.

 

[bpsmith]

R Rizzla36

I hear this complaint so much. One day they wont force their currency to be so low and we're all gonna be f****d. The reason why china produces so much fakes is because companies go to china to get stuff made. The machinary and workforce makes its way into the fake market so they can produce things so well.

Of course, you are exactly right. Don’t be fooled into thinking that they have done this to help out the rest of the world. They have done it to become the powerhouse which they are and to have that exact chokehold on the world. We will all be in trouble because our respective countries stopped making stuff in the pursuit of saving money to buy more stuff!

The reason the fakes are so good is certainly because they have the tools and skills to make literally anything they desire.

 

[Aquagraph]

I'm not sure that I believe that the sole reason the Chinese can make good fakes is because the Swiss have them make parts. Sure that helped but modern technology means reproducing pretty much anything is pretty easy and it's only going to get easier. Long term you have to think that watches (and other goods) will end up being priced for their actual worth rather than the inflated luxury price. Sure you will still pay more for 'branding'... but not like it is now.