TAG Heuer help Zenith design the next El Primero

Aquagraph
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drunken monkey drunken monkey
I see it more as the difference between operating TAGHeuer as an independent company versus as part of a conglomerate.
You must remember that when JCBabin was pushing the HH watches, TAGHeuer was still pretty much an independent brand under the lvmh umbrella, as opposed to being an integrated part of a group.

The back end merger with Zenith happened later and hublot didn't join LVMH Swiss Manufacturers until a few years after that.

If the brands were viewed as individuals as they were before then TAGHeuer being the volume seller having a series of halo products, works. But if you see the brands are being branches of the same tree, then what fruit is on what branch naturally changes.

It's kinda obvious how JCBiswatch likes to run things...

Given the current climate, I think it's not a bad method as it sets clear differences between the products offered, minimises internal competition and reduces costs as fewer competing products are put through development.
The thing I'm not sold on, is the design path, which is where my comments about Zenith watches being TAGHeuer watches in style.

I suppose the question is, will those of you with plenty of disposable income move on to Zenith? Speaking for myself (and I get the impression I'm one of the people here with the least disposable income) having TAG as an affordable luxury brand works well for me, although I seem to be in the slightly awkward position of only really being crazy about the top end of the bottom end of the market... if only I was excited by quartz Aquaracers with cyclopses, life would be awesome.馃檨
 
Aquagraph
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OttoWilliam OttoWilliam
Exactly why i think tradition is as important as innovation. Spot on.

Yeah, but at the same time I'd like to hope that TAG will launch a 'new' watch at some point. Or is it just F1's, Aquaracers and Carrera forever now? How boring will that be.
 
drunken monkey
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Aquagraph Aquagraph
I suppose the question is, will those of you with plenty of disposable income move on to Zenith?

I think the choice of words here is important to note.
If one buys a Zenith, it shouldn't be seen as a "move" (implying a sense of loyalty) but certainly, right now, Zenith are showing more watches that I like (i.e more my style of design) than TAGHeuer is.

ml_5059178.jpg
These are pretty hot and at a spot on 38mm.
And let's be honest, squint and these could've been Carrera models. If I were looking to (finally) add an El Primero to my watch box, this is easily first choice in the current line up.

I would still get the Telemeter model first and I do also have an itch for a broad arrow Speedmaster too for the Piguet movement but other than that one Heuer branded Carrera, very few mainline models fit my taste and I don't see TAGHeuer introducing that sort of watch anymore.

Until we finally see if/how the proposed Heritage line ends up that is.

JCBiver has made it quite clear that he sees little value in "in-house" at this price range when the third party options offers the same performance. However, it would be a little short-sighted to ignore that when other manufacturers at the same price range are offering that extra box to tick. I do see the problem that when you have watches with both third-party and proprietary movements in your line-up, it's not an easy sell to the casual buyer; implying that if you start on the "in-house" path, you have to go all the way.

That'll be a huge commitment and a massive shift in their business model and even role within the LVMH Swiss Manufacturers group. The ultimate question is whether TAGHeuer can make and sell a manufacture three hand Aquaracer for 拢1600-1800 with the same margins and the answer to that lies partly in the strength of the brand.
How about 拢2000?
(make it an 844 re-issue and I'd certainly pay that for it)

One problem they have for which there is no solution, is that WIS, despite all their posturing, still do look at the name on the dial before knowing whether they should say "nice watch" and these "buyers" (commentators really) will never consider that sort of money for a TAGHeuer, regardless of what's underneath the dial.

It's a pickle for sure and one where you just have to choose your path and go for it. It's just a shame the chosen path doesn't seem to lead to me right now.
 
Aquagraph
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drunken monkey drunken monkey
I think the choice of words here is important to note.
If one buys a Zenith, it shouldn't be seen as a "move" (implying a sense of loyalty) but certainly, right now, Zenith are showing more watches that I like (i.e more my style of design) than TAGHeuer is.

Well that's fair enough, I forget not everybody is as 'focused' as me!

drunken monkey drunken monkey
JCBiver has made it quite clear that he sees little value in "in-house" at this price range when the third party options offers the same performance. However, it would be a little short-sighted to ignore that when other manufacturers at the same price range are offering that extra box to tick. I do see the problem that when you have watches with both third-party and proprietary movements in your line-up, it's not an easy sell to the casual buyer; implying that if you start on the "in-house" path, you have to go all the way. That'll be a huge commitment and a massive shift in their business model and even role within the LVMH Swiss Manufacturers group. The ultimate question is whether TAGHeuer can make and sell a manufacture three hand Aquaracer for 拢1600-1800 with the same margins and the answer to that lies partly in the strength of the brand.
How about 拢2000?
(make it an 844 re-issue and I'd certainly pay that for it)


Indeed, but the last thing TAG need is to be the one company left using non in-house movements... why give the competition more sticks to beat you with? At the same time, I'm not entirely convinced that Zenith is the brand to take on Omega and Rolex (in their price bracket). If TAG aren't maintaining their 'tradition' as much as some would like, Zenith are a brand that has zero identity.

drunken monkey drunken monkey
One problem they have for which there is no solution, is that WIS, despite all their posturing, still do look at the name on the dial before knowing whether they should say "nice watch" and these "buyers" (commentators really) will never consider that sort of money for a TAGHeuer, regardless of what's underneath the dial.

Which is perhaps why JCB feels that TAG Heuer is better positioned as an entry level brand, aimed at younger people who don't carry these prejudices?
 
OttoWilliam
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drunken monkey drunken monkey
ml_5059178.jpg
These are pretty hot and at a spot on 38mm.
And let's be honest, squint and these could've been Carrera models. If I were looking to (finally) add an El Primero to my watch box, this is easily first choice in the current line up.
Exactly what i am thinking. If they release this branded heuer, i can't stop imagining huge the potential. I could be wrong though. But to be honest, i am a bit jealous why cant we have this design first before zenith. Its almost no use if we have it now. But at least that zenith its not cheap at all.
Now dont get me wrong. I dont want every watch model that i like to be branded heuer. Its not that simple. But this zenith model is everything a carrera suppose to be. Legible and the right size. Clean dial. I cant seem to see what more can we ask from it. WIS would rejoice also because it has no date window on chronograph.(another debate topic, i personally like watch with date)
 
drunken monkey
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Zenith isn't set to take on Omega.

A company that can produce maybe 50,000 a year at best, is just an outside, interesting, alternative to the volume mainstream sellers like Rolex and Omega and TAGHeuer. If anything, they are an IWC rival and maybe JLC because of the traditional small volume hand making approach.
 
Aquagraph
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drunken monkey drunken monkey
Zenith isn't set to take on Omega.

A company that can produce maybe 50,000 a year at best, is just an outside, interesting, alternative to the volume mainstream sellers like Rolex and Omega and TAGHeuer. If anything, they are an IWC rival and maybe JLC because of the traditional small volume hand making approach.

Do you not think LVMH would like it to be a bigger seller? Do you not think JCB would like to grow the brand? I'm not saying it's going to be easy, but if they have taken TAG Heuer away from direct competition with Omega by capping the prices, surely the next logical step is to push Zenith into that position?
 
elbeik
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How much freeway will JC Biver allow Tornare is yet to be seen.
 
Hubert
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elbeik elbeik
How much freeway will JC Biver allow Tornare is yet to be seen.
Yeah, I thought so too.
 
elbeik
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I don't understand diamond embroidery on a watch.
 
C
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Zenith's website has a nice overview of its "Geneva Days" releases at SIHH 2018.
http://www.zenith-watches.com/geneva-days/en/

Note that the new Defy El Primero 21 is now available on a metal bracelet which wasn't part of last year's release at Basel 2017. In this form with the tapering bracelet, the Defy El Primero 21 begins bearing a much closer resemblance to the Audemar Piguet Royal Oak. I wonder if this wasn't part of the original plan.
zenith_defy_2018_01_15.png





Finally, in case you want to visit them during SIHH 2018, they've put the address of their boat.
lvmh_boat_2018_01_15.png
 
Mr_Orange
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C calibre11user
Here's more proof from SIHH 2018, courtesy of watchprosite.com. TAG Heuer fans have seen this all before.


ml_5490181.jpg

The blue strap on the top right hand model looks like a Heuer 01 strap.

elbeik elbeik
I don't understand diamond embroidery on a watch.

Who does?
 
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