MISSING / PRESUMED STOLEN - Autavia C11 Siffert LE #059/100

abrod520 · Dec 6, 2018

Tourneau along with TAG Heuer and FedEx have determined that my watch was lost in transit on the return trip from Switzerland back to the West Coast. I'm creating this post in case it turns up somewhere, possibly for sale, so that the buyer is aware of the situation (and, long shot, maybe get my watch back).

TAG Heuer Autavia Calibre11 Jo Siffert Limited Edition, ref. CBE2114. LE # 059/100, serial RQY6899

The watch was sent for service head only (along with the warranty card), so if this watch appears it will not include a strap/bracelet, or box or user manual. Please beware of any Siffert LE being sold without these items!

I am working with Tourneau to reach an acceptable outcome concerning remuneration

THJunkie · Dec 6, 2018

Wow that’s bad luck, sorry to hear that.

Calibre11 · Dec 6, 2018

Adam, terrible news...that watch seems to be jinxed. Will they cover market price? If so, let me know and I can try and source you one from a collector I know is willing to sell (if that’s what you want to do)

Mr_Orange · Dec 6, 2018

I hope Tourneau do right by you, although it sounds as though TAG nd FedEx should be chipping in too.

SteveP · Dec 7, 2018

It feels wrong to 'LIKE' abrod's post so instead I'll just say, I'll keep my eyes open and fingers crossed for an acceptable resolution!
Steve

OttoWilliam · Dec 7, 2018

Hope and pray that in the end it will be the favorable outcome for you despite what happened.

Gosh i don't like sending and receiving watch to and from around the globe for this reason. So far it never happen to me *touch wood touch wood* but this kind of story is what makes my experience in purchasing through internet, very very limited.

abrod520 · Dec 7, 2018

Calibre11
that watch seems to be jinxed

It does! Either that or FedEx has a grudge against me with this one (and only this one as they have been super efficient with all other shipments I've been involved with them in).

Yes, the real challenge now is coming to an agreement with Tourneau on the value of the watch, and the method of remuneration. Store credit at Tourneau is unfortunately not valuable to me, and this watch is worth much more than retail value on a regular Autavia. We'll see what we come to but I'm confident they'll make it right. And I appreciate the offer to look for another one, but I was most likely going to offer mine for sale too anyway.

OttoWilliam
Gosh i don't like sending and receiving watch to and from around the globe for this reason.

Yeah, and the truth is this happens sometimes (so insure your shipments!). What's really disappointing is that this watch had to go all the way back to TAG in Switzerland for a minor chrono adjustment.

Anyway, point of the thread is, please keep an eye out so prospective buyers don't get burned! Thanks!

imagwai · Dec 7, 2018

"Replacement value" is what you should hold out for. If Tourneau didn't insure it for that, then that's their problem.

THJunkie · Dec 7, 2018

imagwai
"Replacement value" is what you should hold out for. If Tourneau didn't insure it for that, then that's their problem.

I’d also redact your intent for the watch if you still had it. This is a publically accessible forum and you never know who’s viewing it. Nobody needs to inow yourbintent for the watch, but the info could impact their willingness to negotiate to a point you seek. Maybe too cautious, but i always work on ‘need to know’ with things like this.

abrod520 · Dec 7, 2018

THJunkie
I’d also redact your intent for the watch if you still had it. This is a publically accessible forum and you never know who’s viewing it. Nobody needs to inow yourbintent for the watch, but the info could impact their willingness to negotiate to a point you seek. Maybe too cautious, but i always work on ‘need to know’ with things like this.

Maybe, but the point is that it's worth more on the open market than simply replacing it with another Autavia or equivalent retail value in store credit. From Tourneau's perspective right now, it's just an Autavia like any other they sell. But they've been made aware of the value and rarity of the watch. Also, the watch is worth what it's worth regardless of what I wanted to do with it - it belonged to me, and if my intent to do something with my property makes them think they don't need to make this right (which I really don't think it will, but for sake of argument) then there's a bigger problem here

imagwai · Dec 7, 2018

When I said replacement value, I meant the value of a mint Siffert on the used market. You could even ask them to source you one!

abrod520 · Dec 7, 2018

imagwai
When I said replacement value, I meant the value of a mint Siffert on the used market. You could even ask them to source you one!

There's only one I could find, on Chrono24, and Tourneau is aware of it

THJunkie · Dec 7, 2018

abrod520
Maybe, but the point is that it's worth more on the open market than simply replacing it with another Autavia or equivalent retail value in store credit. From Tourneau's perspective right now, it's just an Autavia like any other they sell. But they've been made aware of the value and rarity of the watch. Also, the watch is worth what it's worth regardless of what I wanted to do with it - it belonged to me, and if my intent to do something with my property makes them think they don't need to make this right (which I really don't think it will, but for sake of argument) then there's a bigger problem here

They think you want a replacement. Then they can Source one. If you want to flip it afterwards then you’ll get market value. Which no doubt will be higher than your actual loss of what you paid for it. I understand the point about the watch being worth more now. My point is if you’re spotted saying you’d have sold it anyway then your case for a replacementnis (potentially) weakened. As they could come back and offer you 75% (likely still more than you paid and greater than your actual loss) of market value and then there’s whole argument of ‘proving’ yours was in same condition etc should it come to legal action.

And what if after pointing out and agreeing market value, that another comes up and fetches a much higher price than value ‘today’ would you be able to go back and claim the difference if you’d received money now?

I’m probably being over cautious. (If it was me).

I’m not suggesting that you actually take the watch. I’m simply suggesting sharing your negotiating stance in public is not smart. I mean since it is so rare might their loss adjusters come here to find value info and opinion?

Either way I wish you luck.

abrod520 · Dec 7, 2018

THJunkie
My point is if you’re spotted saying you’d have sold it anyway then your case for a replacementnis (potentially) weakened. As they could come back and offer you 75% (likely still more than you paid and greater than your actual loss) of market value and then there’s whole argument of ‘proving’ yours was in same condition etc should it come to legal action.

And what if after pointing out and agreeing market value, that another comes up and fetches a much higher price than value ‘today’ would you be able to go back and claim the difference if you’d received money now?

I'm not sure I understand - for instance, let's say your car was stolen as you were on your way to have it appraised for auction. Would your insurance company offer you less than if you were just driving home from work?

As for condition, it was a brand new watch with a manufacturing defect, being returned from said defect being remedied. I'd say its condition is about the same as that of any of the NIB sales.

If they can somehow replace it with another, that's fine - but my position is that store credit equivalent to the purchase price of a regular stock Autavia - same retail value, but less than 1/2 actual market value - is not an acceptable replacement.

dtf · Dec 8, 2018

I would expect you to negotiate a better settlement for a watch you are emotionally invested in, than a watch you plan to flip. I agree, it shouldn't make any difference as you should get its replacement value regardless, but the people you are dealing with won't care as much for something you were going to sell.

abrod520 · Dec 8, 2018

dtf
I would expect you to negotiate a better settlement for a watch you are emotionally invested in, than a watch you plan to flip. I agree, it shouldn't make any difference as you should get its replacement value regardless, but the people you are dealing with won't care as much for something you were going to sell.

I wasn't planning to flip it - but when another major expense comes along I tend to see if there's anything I have that I'm not really wearing as much, that I can sell on to someone who will enjoy it more. The sale of this watch (which I had planned for a month or two ago originally, thinking I'd have it back by then) would likely have gone towards trips home and to see friends for the holidays next year.

I’m not looking for top dollar or to make a profit on this situation, instead my concern is that I get a fair value for the watch and in a form that is useful to me (i.e. not store credit). And make no mistake - to a corporation like Tourneau, TAG or FedEx, emotional value of an asset has been precisely calculated: $0

heuerholic · Dec 8, 2018

abrod520
Feel for you mate.

Of all my watches that I have, my Autavia Siffert would be the one I would hate to loose the most. if it turns up on the market , it certainly will be a marked piece and you’ll have plenty of people looking out for it.
Difficult one to value, just had mine valued for insurance purposes and it came out at about $5000NZD higher than what paid but to tell you the truth , it’s pretty subjective with very few sales having been made of this watch in the open market.

Anyway, here’s hoping for a good outcome for you.

Remo · Dec 12, 2018

Calibre11
Adam, terrible news...that watch seems to be jinxed. Will they cover market price? If so, let me know and I can try and source you one from a collector I know is willing to sell (if that’s what you want to do)

Wouldn't it be a possibility that they buy it from the aforementioned collector or the one on Chrono24, in order to replace yours? Im my view it's obvious that you get back that LE Version and not any other version. Also it should be completely their problem to find a solution to fix this. You gave it to them, you trusted them, so the liability must be theirs. If they would exclude this in some kind of fineprint, then they would not have a lot of customers anymore, right?

abrod520 · Dec 13, 2018

Remo
Wouldn't it be a possibility that they buy it from the aforementioned collector or the one on Chrono24, in order to replace yours? Im my view it's obvious that you get back that LE Version and not any other version. Also it should be completely their problem to find a solution to fix this. You gave it to them, you trusted them, so the liability must be theirs. If they would exclude this in some kind of fineprint, then they would not have a lot of customers anymore, right?

I don't know how they'll go about it, I haven't been updated yet since last week, but I have every confidence that Tourneau and I can come to an agreeable resolution. They've been very understanding so far.

Calibre11 · Dec 13, 2018

abrod520
I don't know how they'll go about it, I haven't been updated yet since last week, but I have every confidence that Tourneau and I can come to an agreeable resolution. They've been very understanding so far.

Good to hear. Hard to see that this won't turn up online for sale at some point (unless of course it has ben genuinely lost).

Understand on choosing something else, but if you do want to replace, I am happy to do what I can to help you find one...or to speak with Tourneau to confirm rarity, etc.