Limited Editions - Good or Bad?

Mspeedster · Mar 5, 2023

It's interesting that TAG Heuer chose not to make the Monaco Dark Lord tribute and Carbon Monza Flyback Limited Editions. I think this is a good decision.

It's one thing to mark a special anniversary with a LE or for a specific collaboration, but I see no reason why some other watches should be LEs. For example the green & purple Monacos, they could've just as easily been Special Editions.

Thoughts? Do you prefer LEs or SEs, or does it really matter?

YG_Rulz · Mar 5, 2023

From a sales point of view, a limited edition creates a more FOMO effect. Although the Dark Lod and the Monza Flyback also sold out immediately as SE, I believe that the secondary market price would remain high for a LE vs SE. A higher secondary market price would then allow TAG to then justify increasing the price of the subsequent releases.

Personally I like LEs as they have the rare element feeling attached to them.

Mspeedster · Mar 5, 2023

YG_Rulz
From a sales point of view, a limited edition creates a more FOMO effect. Although the Dark Lod and the Monza Flyback also sold out immediately as SE, I believe that the secondary market price would remain high for a LE vs SE. A higher secondary market price would then allow TAG to then justify increasing the price of the subsequent releases.

Are you thinking from the viewpoint of TAG Heuer, or as a buyer or as a seller?

The pros and cons are different depending on the viewpoint. Raising prices is good for TAG, not consumers. FOMO is also good for TAG, not so good for consumers. It helps TAG sellout in the short term and create a buzz. But who knows if they could've sold a lot more, had it not been a LE. For example, the 40th Anniversary Monaco was more than double the price of the standard Monaco in 2009. TAG had no problem selling all 1000 for $10K USD back then. Fast forward 6 years later to the CAW211P's intro, a watch that's nearly identical but not a LE. TAG has sold way way more than 1000 of those. So in the long run, CAW211P surely has contributed much more revenue to TAG than its CAW211A LE counterpart.

In addition, LEs tend to attract more flippers. Which again may help TAG, but not so good for the true enthusiast who dearly wants a watch but doesn't have the funds instantly available.

Hence, I prefer the SE model. As a buyer, it gives me more time to assess my purchase plans. The Monaco Dark Lord and Monza aren't really sold out. Only the initial allocations are, TAG can always make more. I've been offered the Dark Lord twice by my Boutique since the initial batch of 50 in the US sold out last year. The nice thing for TAG with SEs is they can limit their production as needed to make it seem exclusive, but can continue to sell them for as long as they like.

If a design is good, it will sell on merit. It shouldn't even need to be a LE or SE.

YG_Rulz · Mar 5, 2023

Mspeedster
Are you thinking from the viewpoint of TAG Heuer, or as a buyer or as a seller?

I was referring to TAG's view point. FOMO works for sellers rather than buyers.

Sadly watches today sell due to the hype factor, and putting a "limited edition" number to it adds to that hype. I really like your idea that LEs should be associated with anniversaries and collaboration though.

But looking back at my watches, I have 7 LE Monacos, 2 SE Monacos, 3 regular Monacos and the 40th anniversary Monza - and I have paid retail only for the purple Monaco. All of them have been bought at heavy discounts as second hand pieces. It basically tells me that the market is still sensible about TAG watches (at least Monacos), provided a certain duration from launch has passed and the model has lost its charm.

bpsmith · Mar 6, 2023

As you’ve got a decent split between the different types of releases, LE, SE, Regular, etc., @YG_Rulz are you able to say what percentage differences of RRP vs Second Hand prices there are for each type?

That would give some sort of comparison on how each edition affects resale, albeit on a small sample.

Aquagraph · Mar 6, 2023

Mspeedster
If a design is good, it will sell on merit. It shouldn't even need to be a LE or SE.

In an ideal world this would be true, unfortunately in the world we live in a lot of customers are less interested in the design and more interested in whether a watch is hot or not. In the past I used to like the idea of limited editions, it certainly made my exploration of TAG's history more interesting than it could have been, but now I roll my eyes every time we get another 500 pce limited edition that will be sold out in a couple of days.

I can understand why TAG do it, as a business model it makes perfect sense as you can shift £3M worth of watches in a day, but as a customer it really bugs me that you get a call from an AD and the question is not so much 'can you come in and look at this watch at the weekend, but more... do you want the watch, if so we need a deposit to secure it'. That was my experience with the purple Monaco anyway.

I do wonder how many purple Monacos TAG would have sold had it not been a limited edition. I reckon it wouldn't have been much more and probably would have taken 2-3 years to sell the same number, so I can totally understand why they do it.

What I do find slightly amusing is how quickly the HOT watch loses its lustre, it seems like these LEs have a shelf life of about ten days...

YG_Rulz · Mar 6, 2023

bpsmith
are you able to say what percentage differences of RRP vs Second Hand prices there are for each type?

Sure, let me make a list and calculate.

bpsmith · Mar 6, 2023

YG_Rulz
Sure, let me make a list and calculate.

Cool. Might make for interesting reading or might be exactly as expected.

Jemagloh · Mar 6, 2023

I enjoy them all (LE, SE, and core releases). It is nice when a piece comes along that I really like and it's neither a limited nor a special edition (such as the orange Aquaracer). As for the LEs, I appreciate them a bit more when they are individually numbered as opposed to the "ONE OF X" system they have used so often lately.

YG_Rulz · Mar 6, 2023

So I just did a quick check on the purchase vs retail price for my pieces. The problem is that the pieces that I have are from different years, so normalising the retail price is a bit difficult. But let me summarise what I found. Just for reference, I have only bought one watch from an AD (purple Monaco) - rest are from private sellers.
1. H02 (CBL) models: I have the purple Monaco (CBL 2118), which I had bought on retail when it released. The other is the GPdH Monaco (CBL 2114), which I bought in December at a 25% discount from a private seller
2. Calibre 11/12 (CAW) models: I have all 4 non-LE C11s so it gets interesting here. I bought the CAW211P (blue Monaco) and CAW211R (Gulf) at a 30% discount. Both are 2022 models. The CAW211C & CAW211D were purchased at almost a 40% discount. The 2 LEs in this category are the CAW211E (green Japan Monaco) and CAW2116 (Singapore numbered) which were purchased at a 20% discount from retail.
3. Older (CS & CW) models: It's very difficult to tell the discount for these as I wouldn't know their retail due to their age. The 2007 catalogue prices the CW2114 (python) at US$3300, and I had bought it for £2000 in 2022 (+ £550 for service), so that's above retail. The other two are the CS2111 Monaco Grand Prix and the CS2113, for which I don't know the retail, so can't compare.
4. Others: I have the CW9110 (Monaco 69), which I bought for shit cheap, but am spending the same amount on it's repair, so that comes to about 50% discount from retail (inc. cost of repair). The other is the 40th anniversary Monza (CR2080), which I bought for £2200 (no box or papers) so that was also at a heavy discount.

A few inferences that I make are:
a. The flagship models (blue and Gulf Monaco) can be purchased at a relatively lower discount.
b. Non-LE's will attract a higher discount than LE's, and marginally higher discount than SE's.
c. You'll get a higher discount (even on LEs) if they reach a certain age. For me, that age is at least 2 years old.

Mspeedster · Mar 6, 2023

YG_Rulz
So I just did a quick check on the purchase vs retail price for my pieces. The problem is that the pieces that I have are from different years, so normalising the retail price is a bit difficult. But let me summarise what I found. Just for reference, I have only bought one watch from an AD (purple Monaco) - rest are from private sellers.
1. H02 (CBL) models: I have the purple Monaco (CBL 2118), which I had bought on retail when it released. The other is the GPdH Monaco (CBL 2114), which I bought in December at a 25% discount from a private seller
2. Calibre 11/12 (CAW) models: I have all 4 non-LE C11s so it gets interesting here. I bought the CAW211P (blue Monaco) and CAW211R (Gulf) at a 30% discount. Both are 2022 models. The CAW211C & CAW211D were purchased at almost a 40% discount. The 2 LEs in this category are the CAW211E (green Japan Monaco) and CAW2116 (Singapore numbered) which were purchased at a 20% discount from retail.
3. Older (CS & CW) models: It's very difficult to tell the discount for these as I wouldn't know their retail due to their age. The 2007 catalogue prices the CW2114 (python) at US$3300, and I had bought it for £2000 in 2022 (+ £550 for service), so that's above retail. The other two are the CS2111 Monaco Grand Prix and the CS2113, for which I don't know the retail, so can't compare.
4. Others: I have the CW9110 (Monaco 69), which I bought for shit cheap, but am spending the same amount on it's repair, so that comes to about 50% discount from retail (inc. cost of repair). The other is the 40th anniversary Monza (CR2080), which I bought for £2200 (no box or papers) so that was also at a heavy discount.

A few inferences that I make are:
a. The flagship models (blue and Gulf Monaco) can be purchased at a relatively lower discount.
b. Non-LE's will attract a higher discount than LE's, and marginally higher discount than SE's.
c. You'll get a higher discount (even on LEs) if they reach a certain age. For me, that age is at least 2 years old.

When I posed the question, I was primarily thinking of how LEs affect the purchase of new watches. I hadn't really thought about the pre-owned market, since I almost always buy new and rarely sell my watches, but you've raised some interesting points.

I will add one more inference, @YG_Rulz is skilled at getting good deals. Very surprised that you got your Japan Men's Club green Monaco for 20% off of retail, well done! 👍

Mspeedster · Mar 6, 2023

YG_Rulz
2. Calibre 11/12 (CAW) models: I have all 4 non-LE C11s so it gets interesting here. I bought the CAW211P (blue Monaco) and CAW211R (Gulf) at a 30% discount. Both are 2022 models.
A few inferences that I make are:
a. The flagship models (blue and Gulf Monaco) can be purchased at a relatively lower discount.

One thing to take into account though is a LE is on sale "new" only for a limited time, its retail price is a fixed reference point. OTOH, the C11 Blue & Gulf Monacos have risen in retail price over the years. Currently the CAW211P lists for $7300 USD, its retail from 2015 to 2018-ish was ~$5500. So 30% off of a pre-owned 2022 model puts it roughly in the same ballpark of buying new from an AD 4 years ago.

bpsmith · Mar 6, 2023

It is subjective, but I am reading that the take away is that being an LE or SE doesn’t appear to have affected resale, even when the novelty has worn off.

Kind of to be expected, just by the hype of the LE/SE fact, as we all prefer something we are less likely to see on someone else…unless you include forums where everyone has the same very rare model. 😀

YG_Rulz · Mar 6, 2023

Mspeedster
Very surprised that you got your Japan Men's Club green Monaco for 20% off of retail,

I was very, very, very lucky. I bought it on C24 in 2021 during the lockdown through a Japanese dealer.

Mspeedster
So 30% off of a pre-owned 2022 model puts it roughly in the same ballpark of buying new from an AD 4 years ago.

Completely agree, except that the value of money changes over the years, plus the fact that now you get a 2+3 year warranty for C11s. I actually replaced my 2018 CAW211P with the 2022 one because I paid the same for the watch in 2018 as what I was getting it for in 2022.

Aquagraph · Mar 7, 2023

What is quite surprising to me is how difficult it is for a TAG boutique to get these LEs, I keep getting told they get 1 maybe 2 if they are really lucky, but then if there's only 500 pcs worldwide, how many boutiques do they have?

Gene242 · Apr 1, 2023

Aquagraph
What is quite surprising to me is how difficult it is for a TAG boutique to get these LEs, I keep getting told they get 1 maybe 2 if they are really lucky, but then if there's only 500 pcs worldwide, how many boutiques do they have?

Yes, they are hard to come across, I work in the tag boutique in the bahamas and I have not seen the purple Monaco or Dark lord, couldn't even custom order it, it appears most are pre sold and unavailable on a launch date for walk in customers

Jim Dollares · Apr 1, 2023

Gene242
Yes, they are hard to come across, I work in the tag boutique in the bahamas and I have not seen the purple Monaco or Dark lord, couldn't even custom order it, it appears most are pre sold and unavailable on a launch date for walk in customers

Crazy! I really wish the greedy Swiss would stop all this limited edition nonsense and let customers who like a model just buy it if they want.

Many of these limited editions are forgotten as quick as they ran out of stock. Yes it is a quick and easy cash grab for the Swiss but long term I think a brand gets stronger from maintaining solid well designed models in the catalogue over longer periods of time, not just an availability of 1 to 7 days and then never again.

kappa_md · Apr 1, 2023

Aquagraph
What is quite surprising to me is how difficult it is for a TAG boutique to get these LEs, I keep getting told they get 1 maybe 2 if they are really lucky, but then if there's only 500 pcs worldwide, how many boutiques do they have?

Interrsting question sir Rob @Aquagraph since I also wondered on that before. How many OFFICIAL TAG Heuer Boutiques does TAG Heuer have? In the USA alone, more than 500 TH boutiques & watch shops which they call “point of sales” have been listed in the TH Website. My country currently has 3 (in the website) going to 5 this year. And there are other nonlisted retail watch shops of TAG Heuer. So all in all, global worldwide supply for LEs is really small considering the number of watch shops that sells TH.

Gene242 · Apr 1, 2023

Jim Dollares
Crazy! I really wish the greedy Swiss would stop all this limited edition nonsense and let customers who like a model just buy it if they want.

Many of these limited editions are forgotten as quick as they ran out of stock. Yes it is a quick and easy cash grab for the Swiss but long term I think a brand gets stronger from maintaining solid well designed models in the catalogue over longer periods of time, not just an availability of 1 to 7 days and then never again.

Maybe it is us not seeing the bigger picture but right now it is hurting the whole shopping experience.

I had a custumer, who cruises a few times a year and always gets a watch to commerate it...he came with a purple shirt and nothing( all we both had were renderings)...I dont think they are valuing the experience and relationships that have been built over the years.

I dont know if it's the watches are asset culture,the rise of online shopping post pandemic or deliberate shortage to increase prices and position itself into a higher tier in terms of luxury-(at this rate standard monacos will be about $8000 by years end)

It is becoming frustrating for retailers and consumers and worst part is: it feels like this is the new norm

Mspeedster · Apr 1, 2023

kappa_md
Interrsting question sir Rob @Aquagraph since I also wondered on that before. How many OFFICIAL TAG Heuer Boutiques does TAG Heuer have? In the USA alone, more than 500 TH boutiques & watch shops which they call “point of sales” have been listed in the TH Website. My country currently has 3 (in the website) going to 5 this year. And there are other nonlisted retail watch shops of TAG Heuer. So all in all, global worldwide supply for LEs is really small considering the number of watch shops that sells TH.

Yup there are a lot of ADs/Point of Sales in the US, but I think the actual number of "official" TH Boutiques is around 24. The ones that do the largest volumes typically get the higher allocations of LEs. Making it harder for the smaller Boutiques to get allocations of some LEs.

Limited Editions - Good or Bad?

Mspeedster

YG_Rulz

Mspeedster

YG_Rulz

bpsmith

Aquagraph

YG_Rulz

bpsmith

Jemagloh

YG_Rulz

Mspeedster

Mspeedster

bpsmith

YG_Rulz

Aquagraph

Gene242

Jim Dollares

kappa_md

Gene242

Mspeedster

Similar threads

Camaro - Good or Bad?

2020 TAG Heuer Japan Limited Editions

2018 TAG Heuer Carrera Carbon Limited Editions

2018 Japan Limited Editions